[Spoilers] Woden takes on the World (PBEM18)

[Woden]

It looks like you are planning to chain overflow from cheap ancient era techs. Is the science overflow still bugged, with the overflow disappearing when you trigger a eureka? I would be afraid of chaining the overflow off nearly completed techs because it might evaporate into thin air.

Wasn't that bug fixed a while ago, like the last patch prior to the Frontier Pass stuff. And if I am thinking the same bug, that was related to losing overflow if you got some instantaneous science from a GP or pillaging something. The instantaneous science would override the overflow. I know this works now as it is my typical strategy in SP games. It is a good way to catch up on Deity games, where you are usually behind in techs and civics when it changes over to the Classical Age.

[Woden]

Turn 58
Really not a whole lot going on this turn. I switched research to Pottery to kick off my tech run. The Moria settler moves into position. I could have settled this turn but want the era points for settling a new continent, so I will wait until next turn. Up north, there is no way La Venta can grab the barb camp so I have my slinger start heading home to get upgraded. Warrior will grab the camp next turn for a few era points. I place a farm at Rohan for the extra housing. Here is how it looked at the end on my turn...



Internationally, Kaiser gained an empire point. Ichabod finished a civic and gained 3 era points, earning him a golden age. Suboptimal gains a empire point. 

Ichabod finished a stronger unit, as his city strength went from 12 to 22. A warrior would be 20, so it has to be a stronger unit. He has no iron or horses, so best guess would be a galley given the 3 era points (he is first in the game). His military power will increase next turn. 

With all those La Venta warriors near my borders, it would be smart of him to levee them and attack me. Could get a pincer me, attack from the south and the north and I am not sure I could get a response quick enough right now. It would only cost him 220 and I think he will have enough next turn. Seeing him as Suzerain of La Venta got me a thinking last night about what his plans might be. Part of me thinks he put the envoys in La Venta for the era points to get a golden age and Monumentality but the paranoid part worries about an attack.  With all these settlers coming out and 2 of my units in the far north, I am a little spread out right now, I look weak tech-wise, and I am pretty sure buying that 2nd horse might have spooked him a little (hence the spice trade offer after rejecting a similar offer 2 turns earlier). I think I am going to keep my 1-charge builders around to chop some walls if I get some indication of an incoming attack. The good thing with leveing troops is you can't move them that turn you levee them. Another thing to worry about is that his road from Belem to his capital is complete and as far as I know, he could have troops rushing up from the south. I should have moved the warrior on the Erebor pin to the plains hill to get vision on Belem. Will have to do it next turn. 

I am probably over analyzing it and it is just my paranoia. I think if I make some small adjustments to my current plan, I should be good. I think I will keep a few 1-charge builders around to chop some forests if I need to get walls up fast and after this round of settlers are complete, I will get out a few boats, archers, and horsemen. It will delay cities 7 and 8 but if I am just swatting at shadows and Ichabod is not planning anything, I can take La Venta a little earlier than planned and be back popping out settlers in no time. 

I am still working on a summary post but don't think it will be finished tonight.

[Woden]

Era Summary
So far, so good. I think I am having a decent start. I have set my cities up for fast expansion, driven by Cothons and an early Ancestral Hall. I will settle my 4th city next turn and get the settler for my 5th out, with the 6th city 's settler out the following turn. I was last to get a 3rd city down but should be first to a 6th. I have a golden age (not hard with Dido) and will take the science dedication for some extra science. I have a plan that will let me rip through a bunch of techs over the next dozen or so turns. Things are looking good. 

Here are the current standings...

  

As expected I am last in science, with only 5 techs versus 7 techs for the 4th place player. This will change shortly. My next tech is due next turn and will kick-off completing 7 techs in succession, followed by a break for 2 turns while I get a campus down, then another 5 techs complete in succession. 

I am 4th in culture and will need monuments in all my cities to make sure I don't fall behind. I am 2nd in military power, 3rd in religion, and 3rd in diplomacy. Religion and diplomacy don't really tell much right now since I am not chasing a religion yet and no diplomatic points have been given so far. As an aside, since the amp was created using Cornflakes work around for custom maps, it was set up as a standard map size, meaning there are 5 Great Prophets available, so everybody can get a religion if they so chose and get it before the industrial era.

Here are the current scores...

 



Thanks to my era score and double points for unique districts, I have remaining in the middle or above in score but was last to a third city. Tech-wise I am last and in the middle civic-wise, 3rd to a new government. I am pretty sure I am first to get the Ancestral Hall and would be surprised if anybody else has built it yet, possible but not probable. I am not sure who else has government plazas down yet but most likely a few do or are working on them right now. Overall, it is still fairly close game and no one is really out of the running yet, there is only a 36 point difference between Kaiser and suboptimal. I will say if things continue as they have been, suboptimal and CMF might be in trouble. As for me, I think I am in good position to jump ahead and think the game is going to be decided on what happens between me and Ichabod. I will discuss my thoughts on the individual players after I summarize my empire.

My Empire
  
I have talked about my immediate plan in length over the last few trun reports. Here I will discuss my individual plans for each city, starting with Rohan...



Rohan is going to suffer from lack of housing until I can get an aqueduct built. The aqueduct will go directly east of the city center with an +8 industrial zone east of it. Its second district will be a discounted commercial hub south or the aqueduct and depending on what happens with Brazil, an encampment might be placed southwest of the horses. Currently, the city is working on a monument and will put up walls afterwards. The city will probably work on an archer afterwards and then build its aqueduct. I should be able to get a decent size city out of Rohan and will have a farm triangle with the farm already placed. I want to save the trees for lumbermills but might have to chop one for the walls if Brazil tries anything in the immediate future. The current builder has 1 charge left and will stick around until walls are built. 

At Osgiliath...



I plan an aqueduct southwest of the city and a dam southeast, then an + 9 industrial zone can go directly south of them. This city will need a watermill soon, to help its 3 wheat tiles and grow very large. The city will probably need an entertainment district at some point to help with amenities and might be a good location for the Colosseum if it is still available. The settler is due next turn, then wit will finish the trader and might switch to a Brieme once Games and Recreation finishes and I can run Maritime Industries. Another option for this city would be an encampment and use it for my unit pumping machine but I think having it build boats might be better. It will lose a pop next turn but if I go high food, I should be able to recover it in 1 turn. 

At Gondor...



My capital is set up to be a settler pump, producing them at 250% production right now. The district plan so far is to build an aqueduct on the farmed wheat directly east of the city center with an +7 Industrial Zone east of that. The long term plan is to get Magnus fully promoted and have 4 factories proving the addition production to this city and make it a production powerhouse. I can easily get the production over 100 once I can get factories and power plants going. The harvest of the wheat for the aqueduct will help speed Gondor to size 7. Since the Government Plaza is built here, the city gets +50% production towards districts (Civ's unique ability), so the districts should take no time to build. I am planning to get the high adjacency era points for an industrial zone for the next era from Gondor and once it is built, I can go hog wild on settler spamming to fill up my area and maybe steal some from Brazil and Egypt. The city has 2 or 3 chop-able features that can go into settlers. I am not sure if I want the flat plains forest removed or lumbermilled yet but the plains hill forest and stone can go. 

Gondor also might be a nice city for the Kilwa Kisiwani since there are a number of scientific city states, +30% science across all cities would be a huge help. Also might be a good spot for the Casa de Contratcion. Since I can move my capital, it might be beneficial to build it and then move my capital to the continent in the east to gain +15%, , and in cities with a governor.

The unsettled cities



The next two cities are Erebor and Rivendell. At Erebor, I will start with a monument or walls and plan on an aqueduct northwest of the city center with a +7 industrial zone west of it and a commercial hub east of the city center. Not much else planned for this city but I might make it my builder pump if I can put Liang in there a little further down the road. For Rivendell, it will start a monument while I go to chop the location of the +6 Campus. Once the monument finishes, I will build the Campus. I also will look at placing an Encampment in the desert to block off access for the east. There also might be a good spot for a Holy Site with all the mountains. 

Next I will discuss my opponents and how I thing they are fairing so far, but that will be in another post.

[Woden]

Players
From high to low score...

Kaiser/Egypt
Score: 123
Empire Score: 44 (4 cities, a campus, and maybe a government plaza)
Civics Score: 27 (9 civics, everything Ancient (7), PP and either G&R or Drama)
Technology Score: 20 (10 techs, a bunch of the ancient and at least 1 classical)
Era Score: 32 (Classical Golden Age)

I think he has envoys in Bologna, Vilnius and probably another science and cultural city state. 

Kaiser has had a terrific start, leading in both science and culture and first to earn a golden age. Egypt is pretty front loaded, so the golden age, much like me, is no surprise. I am pretty sure he is my neighbor to my east and should find out relatively soon, once I an get a warrior headed that direction. As far as I can tell, he has 4 cities with 1 Campus and possibly the Government Plaza plus a few envoys into Bologna and Vilnius. Best guess estimate on his science rate would be high 20s, maybe even low 30s. He has 10 techs completed, probably most of the ancient stuff plus maybe a classical or 2. Civic-wise, he has 9 civics completed and has 8 tourists, so his culture rate is fairly high or he has got a fair amount of boosts. Best guess is a culture rate in the mid 20s. I would say he is currently the leader of the game and I am interested to see if he remains there of starts to fall off now that we are leaving Egypt's "power" time and Ichabod and I reach start ramping up. I have no idea what dedication he will take, not sure if he has the faith generation for Monumentality, but the culture one might work for him.


Ichabod/Brazil



Score: 109
Empire Score: 42 (4 cities, 2 Holy Site (another in production), and maybe a government plaza (might be under construction; can see it in his second city))
Civics Score: 24 (8 civics, everything Ancient (7) and PP)
Technology Score: 16 (8 techs, all ancient)
Era Score: 27 (Classical Golden Age)

Science Rate: 19 bpt
Culture Rate: 19 cpt
Income: 14 gpt
Faith: 19 fpt

He has envoys in Fez, Hattusa, Bologna, and suzerain of La Venta.

I know the most about Ichabod since he is the only one I have met so far. I am a little surprised by Ichabod's slow start. He met 2 scientific city states early, massive food surplus at his capital, and could have built an early, high adjacency campus and should be leading the tech race right now. I think he is tech dumping, much like me, and we might see a run of techs completion once the era turns. Also, with him pushing religion and not getting his pantheon until recently (taking Sacred Path) , he is most likely going the Work Ethic route fueled by the jungle adjacency pantheon. Not sure what his capital Holy Site looks like but the one at Belem is +10. 

Until yesterday, due to the lack of updates in his thread, I figured he lost interest in this game and was just going through the motions, but a few days ago he posted that he was enjoying the turn pace in response to something suboptimal posted and then yesterday we see see a string of posts in his thread.

As discussed in the previous post, if he launches an attack with La Venta units within the next few turn, I might be screwed. If not, I think I still have to worry about him. An extra 10 or 20 with the faith card is no joke. I think he is still very much in the running for this game. I'm expecting a little time before he gets his faith economy up and running in full force, then we should see a steady stream of settlers coming out. I think there maybe a race for land coming soon. I am seriously considering military action sooner, rather then later. Better to hit him before he can take advantage of his high production cities. I have a sketch of a plan laid out that might work and part of the reason I am changing a few things right now. I will share it with my next strategy update coming soon. 


Woden (me)/Phoneica
Score: 99
Empire Score: 38 (3 cities, 2 Cothons, and a Government Plaza with the Ancestral Hall)
Civics Score: 21 (8 civics, most Ancient (8) and PP)
Technology Score: 10 (5 techs, all techs leading to Celestial Navigation, plus Mining and Animal Husbandry)
Era Score: 30 (Classical Golden Age)

Science Rate: 20.9 bpt
Culture Rate: 13.1 cpt
Income: 9 gpt
Faith: 4.3 fpt

I am set up to take the led in this very shortly. I was last to 3 cities but should be first to 6. Short on techs but will complete 12 in 14 turns, which should be enough to take the lead. Culture will be lagging for a little while but I can still take Pingala's cultural promotion but might need the next Governor's Title for something else. If I get monuments in all my new cities, I should be competitive. I think everybody will focus on the bottom of the civic tree to get the science and faith doubling cards, while I am going to focus on the top all the way to Exploration before I finish Drama. I like my chances in this game, as long as I can hold off aggression from Brazil. 


CMF/williams482/Canada
Score: 91
Empire Score: 34 (3 cities, 2 campus, and maybe a government plaza)
Civics Score: 24 (8 civics, everything Ancient (7) and PP)
Technology Score: 14 (7 techs, a bunch of the ancient and maybe 1 classical)
Era Score: 19 (Classical Normal Age unless he gets 5 era points on his T58)

He is suzerain of Bologna and has a faith city state (2nd to pantheon). Also probably has a cultural city state. 

It looks to me Canada had a rough start, last to a second city and 4th(?) to a third. They still only have 3 cities, I think, but looks to have built 2 Campuses. They currently only have 7 techs completed but I suspect their science rate is currently second in the game, with a rate a little higher than mine (probably mid 20s). They also seem to have a high culture rate, being 2nd to political Philosophy, having 7 tourists, and have completed 8 civics. I believe they are the suzerain of Bologna and might meet them next turn when I settle Moria (not sure if I met them or if they met me on their turn since the vision will come from Bologna city center. Might still have some barb troubles since they are only at 3 cities but might catch up. Overall, I am not sure how their game is going but I suspect not well. They had Sullla and TheArchduke dedlurking them but I have not seen any posts from those 2 in a while and they might have just dropped providing input, which can be a sign of unwinnable game or at least an average game. CMF is a good player but I am suspecting an "also played" performance, give the rough start and being Canada. 

Best guess is that he is located southeast of me, south of Egypt. 

suboptimal/England
Score: 87
Empire Score: 34 (3 cities, 3 campus, and maybe a government plaza)
Civics Score: 15 (5 civics, everything leading to PP)
Technology Score: 14 (7 techs, a bunch of the ancient and maybe 1 classical)
Era Score: 16 (Classical Normal Age)

Not sure what city states are around him. 

Suboptimal has had a fairly poor start. He is behind in civics and he hasn't even finished Political Philosophy yet. Culture is king in the early game and they are behind. Not much else is known about suboptimal. His expansion has been what is expected. Best guess is that he is located in the far east.

[Woden]

Turn 59
We enter the Classical Era. I start by selecting my dedication...



New era, new city state quests: Fez wants a the inspiration for Drama, Bologna wants a trade route, and Vilinius wants a Great Admiral. All are do-able but not sure I want to waste a trade route to Bologna. I will get a GA and might be able to fit a winder in before Drama is complete. It will be a while before I need to finish it. 

I finish...



And start Bronze Working so I know where iron is located. Archery and Masonry will follow. 

I start playing the turn by taking the barb camp in the northwest for 50, then founded Moria...



Builder hooked up the crabs and the city starts a Cothon. Settler out of Osgiliath and I send him towards the Erebor pin. The city lost a pop, so I reconfigure the citizens to regrow next turn. Warrior by Belem climbs the plains hill to find a Brazilian warrior...interesting. Fortunately, La Venta got out a unit and increased the cost to levee (now 280) and their units moved away from my borders. I am a little safer at the moment.

Internationally, Kaiser had no score change, Ichabod completed a tech, I increase my score by 12 and now tied with Ichabod, CMF gained an empire score, and Suboptimal founded a new city (and maybe a district), gaining 9 empire points, completed a tech, and added an era point. Kaiser, Ichabod and I got Golden Ages. Suboptimal and CMF got Normal Ages. 

I am pretty sure I can get another Golden Age. I already gained 5 era points on turn 1 of the new era... 



Other sources of era points include:

• Splendid Industrial Zone (3)
  
• Splendid Campus (3)
  
• Unique Unit (Brieme) (4)
  
• Galley (2)
  
• Horseman (1 or 2)
  
• Swordsman (1 or 2)
  

Plus any barb camps, civilization meets, Tier 2 government, might be able to be first to go around the globe, and wonders I can build, suzerain any city states, etc. Should be able to grab enough for another Golden Age in the next 30 or so turns. I need 21 for normal era, so 42 for Golden Age. Off to a good start.

[Woden]

Turn 60
Start off with...



Two down, a bunch to go. When I open the save, I met someone...



They are the suzerain of Bologna now. I think they took it over from Canada (who has 3). Interestingly, they are at war with the only other player they know. Best guess is it is Canada but also a slim chance it is suboptimal. Could explain his slow start. Egypt was the player with envoys in both Bologna and Vilnius. They have 3 cities, one with a campus and one with a government plaza. I desperately need to defog the east. 

With Bronze Working finished, I have 2 irons within my borders. One by the capital and one by Moria...



Settler finishes at Gondor and I start another. I ended up decided that I what to chop the next settler. I want to grab those spices south of Gondor. Then I will have all the luxuries on my continent and it is a decent city location.

Internationally, Kaiser finished a civic and gained 3 era points (pacifying an enemy city state? and meeting me). CMF finished a civc and a tech and gained an era point. Suboptimal gained 2 empire points. 

Up next for techs in Masonry. I also switched off of Games and Recreation for a turn so I can get rid of the settler card once I chop the forest.

[NobleZarkon]

Been a few days since I've had time to get online - really interesting developments and great tp read your analysis of the situation. Things look well set up for you, fingers crossed.

[Woden]

Turn 61
Here is the turn from a few days ago. Start off with...



Slot Archery to finish next. Also switch civics research to Games and Recreation to finish next turn. I  buy the 3rd ring forest tile at Gondor and chop into the settler...



Settler was at 44/230 and the chop was worth 145. I would have gotten more production if I waited next turn but settler finishes next turn regardless and all overflow is lost anyways since my modifiers are so high. I am going to pause settler production to get a few boats and horsemen out.

I am no longer last in science and should start gaining ground on the science ranks over the next 3 or 4 turns. I look at the tech tree...



I am even with Kaiser (the tech leader), we both have something on the first column of the Classical Era. I am a little surprised that Ichabod has not finished anything in the Classical Era yet. I should gain overflow with everything left in the Ancient Era and start using it in the Classical Era. Next turn I will boost Iron Working and Apprenticeship when I mine my first iron. Ichabod still hasn't started collecting horses or iron, something I might need to consider moving forward. 

My next major decision will be where to send the settler that finishes next turn...



I can go to either the City A or City B location. The City A location is influenced by 14 loyalty from Ichabod and will need some love to keep it from flipping. I could get a +3 Cothon and add pressure to Belem. City B grabs a double spice and has a nice +4 Campus spot. After thinking it over the last few days, I decided City B is the better spot. I don't think the City A spot is as contested as City B might be. There is a bunch of decent land down there for Brazil to settle and if I get a city going, it will add loyalty pressure to any city settled in that direction. I really like the City A spot because it can grab some iron, denying it to Brazil. But, it might be tough to keep loyal until I can get a few cities north of it to help with Loyalty pressure. 

Internationally, I noticed Ichabod spent some gold, so I don't think he has plans to levee La Venta. I guess I was swatting at shadows and let my paranoia get the best of me. At least it made me realize that I am vulnerable and need to shore up my defenses. 

Kaiser finished a tech and civic and gained an empire point. Ichabod finished a civic and gained 2 empire points. Suboptimal regains 4th place with a civic, a tech, 4 empire points and 8 era points. Big turn for him, best bet is he finished a Royal Naval Dockyard. I will have to remember to check for GA points next turn. Also might have to keep an eye to see if he is looking to steal the GA, +20% to ranged ships is pretty good.  CMF finished a tech and gained 3 era points.

I have a decision to make on where I want this game to go coming up. With Ichabod positioned to become a production monster, it might be better to go on the offensive and strike before he gets into a position where it might be very difficult to hold him back. On the flip side, I can match his production with my planned Industrial Zone center and out expand him with my quick settler production. A lot will depend on what I see in the northeast. That area is a new continent with different luxury resources. If there is decent land with a few new resources to feed a large empire, it might be better to push settling that land (before Kaiser can) and wait until I can get the next level of military tech to push on Ichabod. 

If I chose the aggression path, I should be able to take Belem easily but if he gets crossbowmen, I will stall at his core. That is why it might be better to wait a little bit, get my cities improved and strike with knights and maybe muskets. I could also get a boat down by him to scout his shore. He has one coastal city due to the galley build a few turn ago. Might be able to get Frigates and Caravels to smash his coast. 

There is a timer on this decision, for my next governor's title, I can take either Black Market in Magnus so I can produce units at my capital for very little resources or do I go with the culture promotion for Pingala and race towards Mercenaries and Medieval Fairies for cheap upgrades and the next title. I think I need to see where we are at to make this decision. It will depend on where Icabod is tech-wise and if he has resources hooked and what I find in the north. Ideally, there would be some decent coastal city sites along the northern coast. Even if they have some tundra, they might be worth settling for the Cothons.  

Anyways, that is what is on my mind right now. In the immediate future, the goal is to get some units and capture La Venta and buff up my security. I think I have about 10 turns to determine if I want to continue building units and go after Brazil or do I want to expand further and improve my infrastructure before pushing on him. I will discuss this as the time gets closer and I think through it.

[Woden]

One last thought, I have to think about fortifying my flank from Kaiser. If he sees me attack Brazil he might look for an opening to double team me. Especially in a few turns, if I jump in the lead with finished techs.

[Woden]

Turn 62
Open turn to...



Also finish Games and Recreation and slot Horseback Riding. I change my policies...



Out with the settler card for the time being and in with Maritime Industries and Caravansaries. Caravansaries will provide 4 now plus 2 more when my 3rd trader is finished in a few turns. With the boat card in I have Gondor and Osgiliath switch production to Briemes, both due in 2 turns. Gondor will then pump out a quadrireme to look for something to get the boost to Naval Tradition. Once the quad is finished, I will slot Military Training and build a few horsemen. 

I founded Erebor and I think I am first to 5 cities. The new settler moves towards the Rivendell pin. The builder out of Erebor pastures the horses, then will harvest the wheat into Erebor, and then either mine the copper or go for the gypsum (might buy the tile). All cities except Rohan are at +3 happiness and 10% boost to all yields...



I am now 3rd in science and have a higher tech rate than suboptimal and CMF, both have 9 techs like me. The builder by Moria mined its iron for the boosts to Iron working and Apprenticeship. Erebor starts a monument and Rohan finishes one and starts on some walls. 

Internationally, Kaiser gained an empire point and Ichabod matched my previous score with a tech and era point. Might have completed a classical era tech, forgot to check. Suboptimal finished a tech and gained an empire point. I did check and he is now accumulating GA points and I forgot that each RND generates 2 GA points. He might get the next admiral. CMF remains the same. 

I looked around some this turn, curious on the envoy situation and what Belem might be working now that it looks like an archer came out this turn. Ichabod has 2 envoys in Vilinus and Fez, but only 1 envoy in Hattusa and Bologna. He also has started accumulating horses, so he has another source in the fog. As for Belem, there are hammers on a watermill and granary in strategic view, so he is working on one of those. It is a little odd, since I didn't see a hammer on the city center last time I checked, so he must have put a turn into one of those since and is working on the other one, unless they both would show up if there are queued. Not sure, I have never tested that situation. Regardless, he is either working on a granary or a watermill. Ichabod also spent more gold, so I was definitely paranoid and and seeing shadows. I will be safer in a couple of turns when my city strength goes up due to the Briemes and really safe as I get more units out.