WW 46: Wolves Return to Realms Beyond

[Gaspar]

#58
Gaspar, why do I get scum vibes off you? What's this "this bus is super scummy but I'm going to keep my vote here anyway" bullshit? 

Emphasis mine. My point was that the bus felt scummy so I kept myself on Rowain, my initial fun vote, who happened to be one of the people driving the bus.

Misparsing can be human error... or it can be wolvian error. Time will tell. He also then agrees with Cyneheard... who was pointing out the same bus I was keeping my vote on Rowain for, which you think you'd catch in a thread re-read. (Note I still think Cyneheard was awful defensive in that post.)

Eff it, in addition to this post setting off my scumdar with the early re-read and then misparsing, his 5 posts today include two jokey posts and then two thread-fillers checking in on the newbies, the classic kind of fluff scum use to boost their post count.

pindicator

[GeneralKilCavalry]

What's a bus

[Gaspar]

What's a bus

A train of votes on one player - you are throwing them under the bus which usually gets shortened to 'bussing' them.

[Lewwyn]

Mnnn this is the good stuff. I have so many opinions!

#53
GKC, there is so much more to discuss! For instance, who is pushing serdoa/naufrager? Who is pushing you? Did they start or join with a flimsy reason? Did they talk bad about one and then not vote? What could their motives be for what they write? If one does turn up a wolf then what does that say about the others? OH GOD I'VE MISSED THIS! (And this beer: Pelican makes good stuff.)

So I thought I had good vibes on one of you/naufrager being a wolf, but then it came out you're both new. And our meta here at RB I'm told is different. Different at civ different at WW. Ergo, less sure now and willing to give new people a little slack. But I want to hear your reasoning because that's where the breadcrumbs come from. When we all turn up dead - because most of us will - those breadcrumbs are going to be what helps us win.
#86
Okay, that might have had a little influence on my vote.
And what are you trying to highlight in post 87?

You're asking the right questions? who is pushing nauf? Personally I think nauf is pushing nauf. But that may be Nauf pushing himself as a town or scum I admit that. But nauf is also very instructive for someone else as I'll explain later.

#53
CMF, is this you're only thought? Have you read all our beautiful writing yet? Would you care to read Ulysses with me instead? Or maybe vote?

Yes CMF might get the no posting lynch, but it won't be me pushing that lynch. Speak up!

#58
Gaspar, why do I get scum vibes off you? What's this "this bus is super scummy but I'm going to keep my vote here anyway" bullshit? 

Oh yeah! Gaspar acting scummy. Actually its hard to tell. More like Gaspar acting aggressive and angry, which could be fine, if we were in day 2 or 3. Usually Gaspar gets angry because he's scum, he doesn't like playing wolf. SO he could be doing 1 of two things, either he's a wolf who's irritation is showing through OR he's an innocent playing at a gambit to see who bites on his auspiciousness. I haven't made up my mind.

#62
Scooter joins you in the "voting for him is bad but I'm going to justify voting for him anyway" scum vibe.

Sure sure, I'm not as sold on this as you are, but I'mm happy to keep it in mind

#61, #63
On the other hand, I like what I see from El Grillo. Town vibes here so far.
#70 - Yes, very good thoughts on naufrager and GKC! And then follow that up with common sense about Serdoa posting? El Grillo for mayor in my book. Wait we don't have a mayor? Fuck it, honorific mayor title bestowed.


Wait that's Cyneheard talking about El Grillo. Well I clearly liked this post and there's Gaspar criticizing it later so hello. Nothing like confirmation bias to get me going down a path.

Now here I disagree with you! unless you're being sarcastic. El Grillo is the one! He's the sneaky one here. Watch out for this one!

Scooter is doing a good job of flying under the radar so far, not kicking up much but only focusing on the low hanging fruit after his back and forth with Cyneheard. I guess I understand encouraging people to post, so I'll do the same: share your thoughts on some meatier targets scooter.

Sure sure, but let's go back to El Grillo and look at the chain of events.



El Grillo starts with a vote on Nauf and a question about how we want to play the day. Okay no prob.
I vote for defensive and nervous nauf and ask El Grillo what he thinks. He says looks good to me!

I’m happy to leave my vote on him, and I say we keep the pressure on until all the lurkers come out and have a say. Personally I think his vote is scummy in a vacuum, and no comment if that’s naufragar actually being scum, or rusty enough to overlook such a slip.

But then very soon a couple posts later:

Naufragar, you talk about separating your question for Serdoa from a vote on him, and perhaps that makes sense in the context of One Night Ultimate Werewolf (a game I personally haven't played, but it sounds like you only get one day lynch vote per game?), but in a forum game where your vote is all the leverage you have, you can see why it drew all this attention.

Cyneheard, you've been quiet since your random vote on scooter at the beginning. What do you think about the interactions between naufragar/Serdoa/Lewwyn, and on the reasoning of pindicator and Commodore starting a second wagon on GKC?

A very quick jump OFF the nauf wagon. Suddenly the leaving his vote on nauf doesn't appeal, even though he's not really saying anything about changing his mind on nauf. Isn't the whole point to put a bit of pressure and see what shakes out? It can't really be pressure if you jump off as soon as there starts to be a little pressure. The action is not congruent with what he purports to want to do.

Man El Grillo wants to start some busses, but he doesn't want to be on anyone who is in the lead. He doesn't want to be caught on the vote lynching a villager.

[pindicator]

Fuck, you were on Rowain. Why did I think you were on naufrager? That kind of kills my idea about you being scummy. In fact, re-reading you post it sounds more like you're pushing against the train on naufrager instead of being wishy-washy-wolfy to stay on it.

Okay, so what did you think about the rest of my post Gaspar? Most specifically scooter and Chevalier? I suppose if you weren't on naufrager before then you lean with me that he and GKC are more likely victims of our RB meta than actual floundering wolves?

[El Grillo]

Yes Night 0 starts have more to discuss, but Day 1 starts have much more to offer in terms of posthumous analysis later in the game, precisely because there’s so much uncertainty... unless you already know everything and have to pretend you don’t.

Some of us are still too quiet for my liking. Thrawn is in EU time IIRC from our Heroes 3 game, so while he has the excuse of being asleep now, Day 1 started at like 7pm for him so he could have participated, but plausibly not have been able to. No more excuses tomorrow, I’d welcome your thoughts on the dynamics so far. The same goes for CMF and Charriu. If you don’t know where to start, would you be willing to vote to lynch naufragar or GKC, or another player, at present? Please don’t say you have null/town reads on everyone.

[El Grillo]

I missed the latest posts while typing on mobile, I started my message in response to GKC back at post #100.

Lewwyn, I disagree with the interpretation that I wanted off the naufragar wagon for nefarious reasons. This is a fixed-day game, not a majority-hammer one, so why feel compelled to leave my vote on someone for the next 40 hours? Cyneheard's behavior seemed odd to me at the time, and sometimes people respond with a bit more detail when you put a vote on them. Where I put my vote at the end of the day certainly matters, and what my frame of mind is when doing so, but you're biting a bit too eagerly here.

[Gaspar]

Rather than recap and rebut everything Lew and pin just said because I have to go to bed, let me just reiterate a few things I've said in this thread.

To me, it seems obvious that nauf and GKC are suffering first game jitters. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I THINK THEY ARE TOWN. But it does mean that I'm not going to hang them for early game slip-ups. I then personally find the long-timers who are parsing them as though they know what they're doing and those that are jumping on their first mistake really suspicious. I get the value in putting some heat on them to see how they'll react, but given that they're feeling heat before anyone's even posted, what are you really hoping to accomplish by bussing them - do we think the new guys are suddenly going to freak out, declare he's a wolf and out the rest of his pack? More likely they're going to either a. clam up which is not useful or b. out a town role if they are town and have one, which sure as hell only helps the red team. None of that is useful to me, I'm trying to find scum and honestly, I do admit to a bias of wanting to give the new guys a day or so to play before we lynch them if there are other, better targets.

That makes the people who know the stuff I've stated above and still persist on busses or scummy follow votes on those guys suspicious to me. Now its day one - the people here that I know I'm going to suspect based on tone and faulty reasoning more than just votes, but the votes are there and the lazy reasoning is there too.

So as stated before, right now the guys who hit my scumdar hardest are Serdoa, Rowain, Lewwyn, Cyneheard and Commodore. Pindcator's post that garnered my vote is super suspect. Scooter has behaved funky like the first five but I didn't get as strong a vibe from him. I don't have a strong town feel from anybody yet.

[Lewwyn]

I missed the latest posts while typing on mobile, I started my message in response to GKC back at post #100.

Lewwyn, I disagree with the interpretation that I wanted off the naufragar wagon for nefarious reasons. This is a fixed-day game, not a majority-hammer one, so why feel compelled to leave my vote on someone for the next 40 hours? Cyneheard's behavior seemed odd to me at the time, and sometimes people respond with a bit more detail when you put a vote on them. Where I put my vote at the end of the day certainly matters, and what my frame of mind is when doing so, but you're biting a bit too eagerly here.

There is no need to leave your vote on someone for 40 hours, but it seems suspicious to me that you would say you were happy to leave your vote there, only to move it so quickly thereafter.

Sure I'm biting eagerly, I was going to wait til later to see more of what you'd do, but Pindicator started extolling your virtues and got my gander up. You are also quick to return to the thread when I leveled my accusation, either waiting or coincidence?

[Lewwyn]

To me, it seems obvious that nauf and GKC are suffering first game jitters.  THAT DOES NOT MEAN I THINK THEY ARE TOWN.  

I agree with this whole heartedly, the only reason I voted for nauf was to draw in El Grillo and get a better read on him since he put his first vote on him.