WW 46: Wolves Return to Realms Beyond

[Charriu]

Additional RB WW tips for all newbies: When in the gaming table forum, click on the number of replies to this thread. You will see who has posted and how many times. Click again on that number of posts and you will see all their posts. Much easier to find specific things.

Oh thank god. That's a life savior.

[Charriu]

So here is my read on current things. Now keep it mind that a lot of this is gut feeling due to the fact that this is the first day:

Players that I find more untrustworthy:

GKC: There are still a lot of little gafs here and there, that do make me suspicious. Now some have argued he's a newb and I may be swayed to leave it at that for the first day, but still there is that doubt. Also I like the PB52 map.
naufragar: This is not meant as totally untrustworthy. He came across as nervous in the beginning, but unless GKC, I'm willing to put him closer into the newb being newb category. He's not totally untrustworthy and by now only barely made my list.

Superdeath: Switching around a lot with very short explanations of why.

Players that I find more trustworthy:

El Grillo: He's really putting some good thought into his questions and his tone isn't overall totally scummy. If he's not a major then he's a detective at least from the way he interacts.
scooter: Overall a lot like El Grillo. Information gathering without being totally accusatory. Good for town.
pindicator: Some good questions in his posts.

I don't have a strong feeling about all the other players so far. For now I'm keeping my vote on GKC with Superdeath close behind.

[Rowain]

[*]Rowain
He has kept a history of votes and switching, which others have updated, which is good info for the town. Vaguely pro-town signal, but really, really easy for werewolves to fake, so a weak signal at best.

I have done such lists in the past from both sides so no one should take that as a sign for my alignment ever. BTW People should check them. I might miss a vote.

I kind of have loose scum vibes from the aggression, but they're weak still.

You have clearly not read games where I took part in the past .

[Rowain]

• He gives the impression of a family guy doing hsi best to participate in the game with the time he has, and seems good-spirited so far. 
  

That's absolutely spot on. Also I just woke up and I am in the EU time zone. Wanted to do a longer post, but I'm on the phone and hell no I'm not doing complex multiquotes on this device.
Overall trying to keep up with the pace. Have to see where the current vote tally is at. Quick theoretical question. Can I go neutral again with my vote?

By rule 5 you can vote No Lynch but be warned that might put a target on you - It is better for town if you vote and give reasons for the vote

tally upcoming

[Rowain]

History:
Serdoa votes Serdoa
Adrien votes Lewwyn
Commodore votes Serdoa
ElGrillo vote naufr
pindi votes Rowain
naufr votes Pindi
Cyneheard votes scooter
GKC votes Commodore
Rowain votes Lewwyn
Gaspar votes Rowain
Lewwyn votes Serdoa
GKC switches from Commodore to Cyneheard
Scooter votes Cyneheard
Rowain switches from Lewwyn to naufr
GKC switches from Cyneheard to naufr
Serdoa switches from Serdoa to naufr
Lewwyn switches from Serdoa to naufr
Pindi switches from Rowain to GKC
Commodore switches from Serdoa to GKC
ElGrillo switches from naufr to Cyneheard
Charriu votes for GKC
Cyneheard switches from scooter to pindi
SD votes for Serdoa
Gaspar switches from Rowain to Cyneheard
SD switches from Serdoa to Rowain
Bob votes Scooter
SD switches from Rowain to GKC
Bob switches from scooter to Lewwyn
scooter switches from Cyneheard to thrawn
Pindi switches from GKC to scooter
Gaspar switches from Cyneheard to pindi
Lewwyn switches from naufr to El Grillo
El Grillo switches from Cyneheard to Commodore
CMF votes SD

Tally:
naufr (3): Rowain,GKC,Serdoa
GKC (3): Commodore, Charriu, SD
Pindi (3): naufr, Cyneheard,Gaspar
Lewwyn (2): Adrien, Bob
thrawn (1): scooter
scooter (1): pindi
El Grillo (1): Lewwyn
Commodore (1): ElGrillo
SD (1): CMF

not voted (1): thrawn

[Charriu]

Thanks, was just a theoretical question. Also thanks for the tallys. I wouldn't worry too much about Werewolfs faking them as BRick posted about that in the Orga thread:

So the Mafia Helper script we used to use is inaccessible, and my attempts to reach out to novice and zakalwe to get it have failed. So we will need to manually track votes. I will not always be able to tally the current vote status on command, so anyone that helps keep track of votes as the game goes on would be doing a great service.

My only warning is do not intentionally post an incorrect vote count in an attempt to deceive someone. It makes my life harder, and it's all publicly verifiable so everyone else will call you out as well. Just don't do it.

It's not a hard rule not to do, but clearly unwanted.

[Charriu]

@Rowain: Also wanted to add that I checked your tally. I missed the last pindicator switch. Everything looks correct so far.

[Rowain]

Thanks, was just a theoretical question. Also thanks for the tallys. I wouldn't worry too much about Werewolfs faking them as BRick posted about that in the Orga thread:

So the Mafia Helper script we used to use is inaccessible, and my attempts to reach out to novice and zakalwe to get it have failed. So we will need to manually track votes. I will not always be able to tally the current vote status on command, so anyone that helps keep track of votes as the game goes on would be doing a great service.

My only warning is do not intentionally post an incorrect vote count in an attempt to deceive someone. It makes my life harder, and it's all publicly verifiable so everyone else will call you out as well. Just don't do it.

It's not a hard rule not to do, but clearly unwanted.

I don't think there has ever been an incorrect tally posted by intent. But mistakes can happen as there are a lot of posts. Thanks for checking my tally.

[Serdoa]

Man so many pages to go thru already. Serdoa Seems a likely candidate.

Any particular reason?

Questioning my motives? Rowain

Any particular reason?

Questioning my motives? Rowain

Ew

Yeah, that was a weak attack for questionable reasons accomplishing nothing. Fortunately, as a regular, I can tell you that's the Superdeath signature. 

<3

im always learning.  GeneralKilCavalry Has convinced me that he is upto something.

Are you effing me? What is that exchange?

1. superdeath votes me, no reason given
2. Rowain questions it, no explanation given, votes Rowain
3. Lewwyn chimes in with disgust, no vote tough
4. Commodore chimes in, with a joke, no vote again
5. superdeath still doesn't explain anything and reroutes his vote AGAIN, and again with no explanation

And none of you put at least a bit of pressure on him?

superdeath
I would like to get an explanation. Why did you vote me? Why did you vote Rowain? Why did you vote GKC?
And I would like to know from Lew and Commodore why they don't pressure him at all, but try to give him an easy out?

----------------------------------------------------------------

A few more posts that made me suspicious and that I look forward getting more explanation from those players about them:

That's not much of a defense!  Gonna need at least two paragraphs or maybe one really self-righteous run-on sentence to switch my vote.

I actually do think nauf is suspicious. You're accusation that I was jumping on Nauf because he was trying to explain himself is a bit off. It's the way he went about defending that piques my interest. But more than that it's early days. And I have a few hunches brewing.

And to be fair about your accusation, Superdeath quick voted for the two people I view as most likely innocent so far. And in a manner I find to be "No U" which is ew.

And why not vote him then? I mean, you explain exactly why it would make sense to pressure him, but don't? I also grow more and more suspicious of your "Defending Serdoa"-routine.

#53
GKC, there is so much more to discuss! For instance, who is pushing serdoa/naufrager? Who is pushing you? Did they start or join with a flimsy reason? Did they talk bad about one and then not vote? What could their motives be for what they write? If one does turn up a wolf then what does that say about the others? OH GOD I'VE MISSED THIS! (And this beer: Pelican makes good stuff.)

So I thought I had good vibes on one of you/naufrager being a wolf, but then it came out you're both new. And our meta here at RB I'm told is different. Different at civ different at WW. Ergo, less sure now and willing to give new people a little slack. But I want to hear your reasoning because that's where the breadcrumbs come from. When we all turn up dead - because most of us will - those breadcrumbs are going to be what helps us win.

I found that whole post of your scummy to be honest, but this part is what gets me. You lay out in the first part very well why his behaviour reeks of wolfness (not being interested why he is being targeted, because he himself knows that they are right), but then you turn around and basically state "oh, you really sounded like a wolf, but you are new"... But I miss the explanation how newness has anything to do with being uninterested in why others target you?

To me, it seems obvious that nauf and GKC are suffering first game jitters.  THAT DOES NOT MEAN I THINK THEY ARE TOWN.  But it does mean that I'm not going to hang them for early game slip-ups.  I then personally find the long-timers who are parsing them as though they know what they're doing and those that are jumping on their first mistake really suspicious. I get the value in putting some heat on them to see how they'll react, but given that they're feeling heat before anyone's even posted, what are you really hoping to accomplish by bussing them - do we think the new guys are suddenly going to freak out, declare he's a wolf and out the rest of his pack?  More likely they're going to either a. clam up which is not useful or b. out a town role if they are town and have one, which sure as hell only helps the red team.  None of that is useful to me, I'm trying to find scum and honestly, I do admit to a bias of wanting to give the new guys a day or so to play before we lynch them if there are other, better targets.

Much text that does not say much though. We have gone over this arguments in the old games already so often and why giving players a pass just because they are (or pretend to be) new, isn't really doing much for town. Pressuring players, no matter how long they play, helps, at least to understand how they play, how they react. Especially later on that is important.

Funnily enough, you explain exactly that as well, just to take it back with the next sentence, making it seem like it is completely worthless to do.

That makes the people who know the stuff I've stated above and still persist on busses or scummy follow votes on those guys suspicious to me.  Now its day one - the people here that I know I'm going to suspect based on tone and faulty reasoning more than just votes, but the votes are there and the lazy reasoning is there too.

So as stated before, right now the guys who hit my scumdar hardest are Serdoa, Rowain, Lewwyn, Cyneheard and Commodore.  Pindcator's post that garnered my vote is super suspect.  Scooter has behaved funky like the first five but I didn't get as strong a vibe from him.  I don't have a strong town feel from anybody yet.

So basically your "scumdar" hits at least 7 players, so 40% of all players? And all those that you know from the past. And as you stated above, you don't want to go for new players either. Seems you made your mind up with not much but a generic "old - new" approach.

Also CMF My El Grillo thoughts came with my response to pindicator which you mention as well. So in fact my El grillo vote came before you started.

It's fine, but it does make me suspicious of you, rolling up with this LIST. It's a list that is at least partially made up of "this is what happened" rather than this person is scummy because of this, or this person is townie because of this.

Then again I don't want to be too harsh since you've had a long day, and I'd like people to play again in the future...

Sorry, but did you make a course in non-aggressive talking Lewwyn? That really does not sound like you.

[Rowain]

It’s close enough to the end of the workday here that I could read on my phone while staying at my work desk, and of course now that we’re talking I’ll keep refreshing.

You’re welcome to suspect me of course, but I think it’s odder how many vets seemed content to leave their votes on two agreeably suspicious newbies and then go quiet, instead of continuing to push for more discussion. I’m very curious to see if Rowain and Serdoa continue to argue in favor of a naufragar lynch in particular. You Lewwyn seem to be off that case in favor of me now, is that right?

A naufr lynch will depend on how he acts in the 30+ hours left and who else shows signs of fur-growth when the night approaches.


For now I will join you on Commodore because I don't like his interaction with SD. and of those 2 I find C more scummy. But as a friendly warning to SD: please explain your votes if you are town.

If you are wolf then please continue