[54 Spoilers] Nothing to see here! Miguelito and Rusten's max score game

[civac2]

I looked into it some more. For the GS bulb you need to research Aesthetics and Alphabet which together are about as expensive as Machinery. It also requires staying away from most religious techs. So that one is pointless.

There is also a bulb of Guilds with a GM. You need to research Alphabet -> Currency -> Code of Laws and Sailing and avoid Mathematics to make it work. I have been unable to find the actual beaker total of a GM bulb. Not sure it can get Guilds done entirely.

[Rusten]

I'd check the hill.

Everything else I'll wait to comment on until Thursday, by which point I won't be on mobile anymore. Nothing pressing.

Edit: And thanks for the list(s). Starting to rival the pbem

[Miguelito]

Thanks civac, input is much appreciated! I have to point out though, as I understand that you came over from civforum.de, that policy here regarding the degree to which global lurkers (ie, reading multiple threads per game) are allowed to advice players is quite different here. Basically, if you are global, you are supposed to not influence a player's decisions actively, since it is assumed that even if you try to avoid letting info from other players influence your advice, there is still a peril of it happening by unconcious bias. And that might discourage players from reporting in their threads, particularly on the most interesting parts. I know that on civforum the rule is a lot more liberal, which as a lurker I enjoy a lot and I think I'd also appreciate as a player for a try.

What is allowed though is answering player's question about mechanics. I think correcting false assumptions about mechanics is a grey area and should be consulted in the lurker thread.

Now, if you want to join the team that would of course be very welcome (assuming you're not significantly spoiled from the other threads at this point, in which case I think this game will be a lot of fun to lurk globally, there are some very nice reporters in the field).

So, to the content:
Yes, I had looked at the guilds bulb by GM when we originally started considering Byzantium. I think it'd give about 1k beakers? Not too shabby for 34 citizen turns! (Rusten, I got that concept from your PB46 thread, trying to apply it here) . The tech is at 1495b.
The price to pay:

• no Mathematics. This is of course pretty heavy, and might mean actually getting out less cataphracts by turn X due to weaker chops, and also no Construction. I feel like this almost certainly kills the concept. But let's look at the rest:
  
• Go to Currency through Alphabet instead. If there ever was a time to do that, it would be now. CtH reduces the cost (but just to bring it on par with Mathematics - why, Charriu, maths is so evidently better as long as we play without tech trading, ie forever? I lie, we have a diplo game running even. You actually could tie the tech cost to the no tech trading option though ). And I expect spies to be significantly more relevant with no score.
  
• need CoL, 522b. Now with SPI we also enjoy ourselves some caste - which would actually be a good means to get said GM out, in maybe 8 turns (or 10, in 2 caste/slavery cycles)? And we could aim for Confucianism instead of Judaism amongst all the Myst starters. A variant of this has us researching CoL through Priesthood, then research Mathematics and maybe Monarchy, meanwhile get the GM out and bulb Currency. The better version of this takes CoL by Oracle, and at this point I have been playing single player for a while already. Although it should be pointed out that Oracle has fallen pretty late in recent games (t60 in PB49, I think Cornflakes took CoL in 50, El Grillo Currency! in 51, 52 I think pindicator built it but I don't know what for, 53 I think again pretty late?). But again, lots of Myst starters.
  So, CoL seems like a worthy investment, if we indeed can set up the bulb and end up around +500b
  
• Why would we need Aesthetics? It doesn't seem to appear on the GM list, at all? We will need Sailing though, but it is already customary and maps are designed to settle your 5th-8th city overseas, so it's likely needed anyways, so I don't really count it as a cost.

As a result of this discussion I'm now fantasizing about nabbing Confu. That of course opens up the Philobulb, also very nice, but we can expect stiff competition from scooter there - otoh, he'll likely want to go for Education?


The all-important scout move: from 1S and the border pop we'll see all the water tiles in the hill's BFC save the one 2E1S. Now if there is a seafood on that tile, would that make us want to settle for 2nd city there? Only if there is a nice grain or deer resource first ring, in which case we would want to go there anyways.
Now, before settling this area, be sure that I will check the hill with the first or second warrior/scout. But at this point, I want to check out asap if there are first ring resources to settle for, as we still have to decide on Hunting vs Agriculture. And that's why I'd rather not lose a turn on that hill.

You see, the game is still not moving, since Elkad apparently noticed it starting only a few hours ago after my PM (or he was busy at work), and will not play for a couple hours more. So I'm left to ramble instead.

[Miguelito]

Next onto the hill, or further south? I don't see us planting there tbh, even with a food resource first ring, there must be something better elsewhere?

Demos:

[Rusten]

We've got time. S-se and then circle around seems best to me for overall efficiency. But I don't feel strongly about it.

[Miguelito]

Normally I would agree, but I do feel under pressure because we have only 2-3 turns left to decide between Agri and hunting, and I would like to know before whether there's a viable shot by the sheep. Do you agree that whatever is in the fog, a second city down there is off the cards? Of course we'll still uncover horses and copper before settling... but the first or second warrior/ scout can still check there.

[Rusten]

I thought we wanted hunting always to protect our scout. If you've worked out a plan that leaves it open I'm ok with your move.

But all information matters, and we will want to know what's down there pretty soon.

[Rusten]

And yeah, don't think we'll settle there first.

[civac2]

I understand and appreciate the danger of unconcious bias. I will stay global and just read the different threads. On the other hand, I followed El Grillo's PB51 thread and he just seemed to fire these detailed reports into the void intersparsed rarely with anodyne encouragement as feedback. That may get depressing at some point. Of course, you two won't have that problem.

I will adhere to the rules here of course. But I wonder what kind of comment can be made safely?

[Miguelito]

I thought we wanted hunting always to protect our scout. If you've worked out a plan that leaves it open I'm ok with your move.

But all information matters, and we will want to know what's down there pretty soon.

Yes I had said that,  but in second thoughts I find it hard to justify Hunting if we don't find a deer. With Agri we could actually start farming a floodplains around the time we get BW (since we whip the settler the chop isn't that urgent), and go straight for Pottery which I think is the path to follow. With Hunting first we could actually lack the tech to improve a grain resource for the second city immediately, and vice versa with a deer (not sure,  have to look it up when not on phone).
But yeah,  the scout would likely die,  and that would suck. Does that outweigh the mentioned advantages of agri,  assuming no deer in sight?

Civac, I'll come back at you when not on phone.