WW 46: Wolves Return to Realms Beyond

[Lewwyn]

AdrienIer is popping to thread with a very pinpoint question (#39). His second content post (#144) contains a vote and couple of remarks on players. He did explain quietness with a lack of time (which works for all alignments), but so far I find his play so far very tidy and clean (in a wolfy way), staying out from a general conversation flow but bringing small bits of value in.


superdeath is total null with his play so far. A very easy cover for a wolf 

Yeah I really agree with these two points.

Good vibes from Meiz here. Shooting up my list of townies. Don't die bruh.


Just, do you see what I see regarding El Grillo?

[Lewwyn]

Looks like I'm the only person in this game so far to successfully vote somebody out.  

Not called the eliminator for nothing.

[Meiz]

Just, do you see what I see regarding El Grillo?

You mean the part he's a good player and therefore potential to be scum? Yeah sure, he is acting calm and collected. Prodding quiet players to speak up. I don't see anything alarming to warrant a vote at this point though.

Care to comment regarding your earlier push against naufragar? Did you think him as wolfy?

[Charriu]

El Grillo: He's really putting some good thought into his questions and his tone isn't overall totally scummy. If he's not a major then he's a detective at least from the way he interacts.

Man you can't determine a specific role like detective from someone's posts. In fact he's acting as innocent as possible which is the opposite of what a detective with a night power would do. Random villagers should be the ones doing the day hunting. And don't call people out for wolves to target unless you're a wolf.

All I see from El Grillo is questions without much thought about the answers. That's one of the best ways for a wolf to appear active and engaged without actually putting forth something that can be pinned down and used against him.

I looked through his PB threads and he has way more personality there than here. Here its overly formal and blank slate.

I didn't mean to talk about the specific role detective. I'm sorry if that came accross wrong. It was a reference back to pindicators comment about El Grillo being our mayor.

#61, #63
On the other hand, I like what I see from El Grillo. Town vibes here so far.
#70 - Yes, very good thoughts on naufrager and GKC! And then follow that up with common sense about Serdoa posting? El Grillo for mayor in my book. Wait we don't have a mayor? Fuck it, honorific mayor title bestowed.

[Commodore]

Good morning, all. Have the kids settled with their virtual classes, have my coffee in hand, and have a hell of a lot of posts to process. Couple early things stand out:

I'm currently finding Serdoa, Rowain, Lewwyn, Cyneheard and Commodore most suspicious.

Right where I want to be.  

Mnnn this is the good stuff. I have so many opinions!

#58
Gaspar, why do I get scum vibes off you? What's this "this bus is super scummy but I'm going to keep my vote here anyway" bullshit? 

Oh yeah! Gaspar acting scummy. Actually its hard to tell. More like Gaspar acting aggressive and angry, which could be fine, if we were in day 2 or 3. Usually Gaspar gets angry because he's scum, he doesn't like playing wolf. SO he could be doing 1 of two things, either he's a wolf who's irritation is showing through OR he's an innocent playing at a gambit to see who bites on his auspiciousness. I haven't made up my mind.

Wait that's Cyneheard talking about El Grillo. Well I clearly liked this post and there's Gaspar criticizing it later so hello. Nothing like confirmation bias to get me going down a path.

Lewwyn and Gaspar keep throwing shade without making real attacks.

Man so many pages to go thru already. Serdoa Seems a likely candidate.

Any particular reason?

Questioning my motives? Rowain

Questioning my motives? Rowain

Ew

Yeah, that was a weak attack for questionable reasons accomplishing nothing. Fortunately, as a regular, I can tell you that's the Superdeath signature. 

<3

im always learning.  GeneralKilCavalry Has convinced me that he is upto something.

Are you effing me? What is that exchange?

1. superdeath votes me, no reason given
2. Rowain questions it, no explanation given, votes Rowain
3. Lewwyn chimes in with disgust, no vote tough
4. Commodore chimes in, with a joke, no vote again
5. superdeath still doesn't explain anything and reroutes his vote AGAIN, and again with no explanation

And none of you put at least a bit of pressure on him?

superdeath
I would like to get an explanation. Why did you vote me? Why did you vote Rowain? Why did you vote GKC?
And I would like to know from Lew and Commodore why they don't pressure him at all, but try to give him an easy out?

I calls 'em as I sees 'em. Superdeath's weaksauce "attack" was completely characteristic of the player, person, and postman that is Superdeath. I'd find it grating to be weakly attacked like that too, but I don't see it as a scum tell for SD. Now what I'm curious to see is if his play evolves; he may indeed be scum, but if so his wolf buddies are going to be coaching him hardcore. I get the nervous feeling that SD is an easy lynch at any time, he will always give at least some scum vibes, so...if he's a villager, that's rough for us.

A few more posts that made me suspicious and that I look forward getting more explanation from those players about them:

To me, it seems obvious that nauf and GKC are suffering first game jitters.  THAT DOES NOT MEAN I THINK THEY ARE TOWN.  But it does mean that I'm not going to hang them for early game slip-ups.  I then personally find the long-timers who are parsing them as though they know what they're doing and those that are jumping on their first mistake really suspicious. I get the value in putting some heat on them to see how they'll react, but given that they're feeling heat before anyone's even posted, what are you really hoping to accomplish by bussing them - do we think the new guys are suddenly going to freak out, declare he's a wolf and out the rest of his pack?  More likely they're going to either a. clam up which is not useful or b. out a town role if they are town and have one, which sure as hell only helps the red team.  None of that is useful to me, I'm trying to find scum and honestly, I do admit to a bias of wanting to give the new guys a day or so to play before we lynch them if there are other, better targets.

Much text that does not say much though. We have gone over this arguments in the old games already so often and why giving players a pass just because they are (or pretend to be) new, isn't really doing much for town. Pressuring players, no matter how long they play, helps, at least to understand how they play, how they react. Especially later on that is important.

Funnily enough, you explain exactly that as well, just to take it back with the next sentence, making it seem like it is completely worthless to do.

That makes the people who know the stuff I've stated above and still persist on busses or scummy follow votes on those guys suspicious to me.  Now its day one - the people here that I know I'm going to suspect based on tone and faulty reasoning more than just votes, but the votes are there and the lazy reasoning is there too.

So as stated before, right now the guys who hit my scumdar hardest are Serdoa, Rowain, Lewwyn, Cyneheard and Commodore.  Pindcator's post that garnered my vote is super suspect.  Scooter has behaved funky like the first five but I didn't get as strong a vibe from him.  I don't have a strong town feel from anybody yet.

So basically your "scumdar" hits at least 7 players, so 40% of all players? And all those that you know from the past. And as you stated above, you don't want to go for new players either. Seems you made your mind up with not much but a generic "old - new" approach.

Also CMF My El Grillo thoughts came with my response to pindicator which you mention as well. So in fact my El grillo vote came before you started.

It's fine, but it does make me suspicious of you, rolling up with this LIST. It's a list that is at least partially made up of "this is what happened" rather than this person is scummy because of this, or this person is townie because of this.

Then again I don't want to be too harsh since you've had a long day, and I'd like people to play again in the future...

Sorry, but did you make a course in non-aggressive talking Lewwyn? That really does not sound like you.

Serdoa, this makes me wonder if your gut is getting what my gut is. Gaspar of the pair strikes me as the scummier, but I see too many wolf kisses.

Looks like I'm the only person in this game so far to successfully vote somebody out.  

Let's see what Commodore thinks now.

Bro. Weak. There are substantial hunts going on, get involved.

[El Grillo]

El Grillo: He's really putting some good thought into his questions and his tone isn't overall totally scummy. If he's not a major then he's a detective at least from the way he interacts.

Man you can't determine a specific role like detective from someone's posts. In fact he's acting as innocent as possible which is the opposite of what a detective with a night power would do. Random villagers should be the ones doing the day hunting. And don't call people out for wolves to target unless you're a wolf.

All I see from El Grillo is questions without much thought about the answers. That's one of the best ways for a wolf to appear active and engaged without actually putting forth something that can be pinned down and used against him.

I looked through his PB threads and he has way more personality there than here. Here its overly formal and blank slate.

I want to believe that you're sincere about your suspicions of me, but that last line stands out, as well as the whole argument about my posting style. I don't know about you, but PB reporting is me adopting an online persona for fun and effect, just as playing forum Mafia is. Does it really concern you that they turn out to be different in tone? For me, part of signing up for this game is specifically getting to wear a different hat in a different setting. I understand that you're trying to encourage everyone to make a read on me for later analysis, but you can do it more thoughtfully than that.

Oh, and if you're going to look through my PB threads, at least leave me a passing comment. I'm feeling terribly lonely in PB54 without a dedlurker to keep me company :P

[Lewwyn]

Comm:

I need a day to see how I feel about Gaspar. You can hate that or not, its just the truth. Some of his posts felt forced some felt natural. I'm not making a full judgement on that yet, we're not even a full 24 hours into the game!

I agree that superdeath can appear scummy by nature of who he is. Basically half the time you want to bop him on the head. Its why I didn't vote for him right away. He''s either scum or an easy mislynch. But he has been far below my expected activity of him and I completely understand the pressure to be put on him. And in fact since I'm not getting any traction on El Grillo, lets turn up the heat on Superdeath

Looks like I'm the only person in this game so far to successfully vote somebody out.  

Let's see what Commodore thinks now.

Bro. Weak. There are substantial hunts going on, get involved.

I don't think its weak. You are one of the substantial hunts. This is maybe your most engaging post thus far in my opinion. I could go either way on you.

[Rowain]

I do like your post Commodore.
I do agree that SD can well be town.
I vote you because your defense for him is what a wolf would do on an easy later mislynch.

why did you vote Gaspar (who had 0 votes) and not Lewwyn (who has 1 vote already and an ongoing dispute with El Grillo)?

[El Grillo]

Also, reading Chev's long participant rundown post, I realized there's special vote tags we can use (I was just making my text bolded and red), so Lewwyn

Bob, could you please give us a little more reasoning about this vote? You were another player I had noted as not having posted much substance so far, and from your other overnight post you sound like you have some experience in this meta. So why vote for Lewwyn like this? He's already been contributing plenty to the discussion, so it's not just a prod, but you gave no reasoning at all, so it also can't be an earnest effort to lynch him. Are you saying that you read him as scummy, and if so why?

[Rowain]

Also, reading Chev's long participant rundown post, I realized there's special vote tags we can use (I was just making my text bolded and red), so Lewwyn

Bob, could you please give us a little more reasoning about this vote? You were another player I had noted as not having posted much substance so far, and from your other overnight post you sound like you have some experience in this meta. So why vote for Lewwyn like this? He's already been contributing plenty to the discussion, so it's not just a prod, but you gave no reasoning at all, so it also can't be an earnest effort to lynch him. Are you saying that you read him as scummy, and if so why?

That post was only a test for the tags and reinforcement of his Lewwyn vote from here