WW 46: Wolves Return to Realms Beyond

[pindicator]

Sleep is for the weak in these games, apparently.  Let's catch up:

Eff it, in addition to this post setting off my scumdar with the early re-read and then misparsing, his 5 posts today include two jokey posts and then two thread-fillers checking in on the newbies, the classic kind of fluff scum use to boost their post count.

pindicator

I count 1 jokey post, then sniffing something on the GKC/naufrager situation, and then asking for experience of new people as I realize that it might be unawareness of RB meta by new players - so I ask questions to get what their experience is elsewhere - that might be setting off my scumdar instead of, well, scuminess.

You're asking the right questions? who is pushing nauf? Personally I think nauf is pushing nauf. But that may be Nauf pushing himself as a town or scum I admit that. But nauf is also very instructive for someone else as I'll explain later.

You're asking the right questions?  - don't follow what you mean here since I didn't write that sentence.  I'm telling GKC this is stuff to be asking now even if we do not have the answers yet.

And I have to admit, while I'm a little flattered by your post about my post here Lewwyn, I have my hackles up about how you do not catch my mistake on Gaspar's vote like Gaspar did but instead jump in with my conclusion.  This seems like something a town Lewwyn would be roasting me for. Instead the response you give and the buddying up feels contrived.


#111
@Scooter's reply, I feel better because these are largely similar reads that i've had.  Although I think I'm going the opposite way on Lewwyn: was on board for town Lewwyn until that reply to my long-post.  And I do agree that we expand the board.  However, I also want to hear what you have thought about Cyneheard since.


#122
I like this post from Chevalier Mal Fet, especially since I agree with a lot of the reasoning going on if not all the conclusions.  I give a town lean for

#53
GKC, there is so much more to discuss! For instance, who is pushing serdoa/naufrager? Who is pushing you? Did they start or join with a flimsy reason? Did they talk bad about one and then not vote? What could their motives be for what they write? If one does turn up a wolf then what does that say about the others? OH GOD I'VE MISSED THIS! (And this beer: Pelican makes good stuff.)

So I thought I had good vibes on one of you/naufrager being a wolf, but then it came out you're both new. And our meta here at RB I'm told is different. Different at civ different at WW. Ergo, less sure now and willing to give new people a little slack. But I want to hear your reasoning because that's where the breadcrumbs come from. When we all turn up dead - because most of us will - those breadcrumbs are going to be what helps us win. 

I found that whole post of your scummy to be honest, but this part is what gets me. You lay out in the first part very well why his behaviour reeks of wolfness (not being interested why he is being targeted, because he himself knows that they are right), but then you turn around and basically state "oh, you really sounded like a wolf, but you are new"... But I miss the explanation how newness has anything to do with being uninterested in why others target you? 

I think you misread my post here.  I'm not laying out a case against GKC in what I'm writing, I'm extolling him to contribute more by asking these kinds of questions.  Now if he continues to not do so then yes, that can very much turn into a case of his behavior reeking of wolfness.  If he's new I'm willing to give him a day 1 pass because I want to see him drop more breadcrumbs, either for helping us find the scum or for him to give more opportunities to out himself



@thrawn
I'm sorry to see you go   I think it's difficult or impossible to follow every thread the first couple days with a larger field like this unless you are committing all your free time to it.  There was nothing wrong with sticking around and just contributing as much as you could, but I respect that you realized it was more than you were looking for.  Hopefully there will be a smaller game you can join in on next!

And also, welcome Meiz!


#168
Commodore, there you are!  And you're writing about stuff that I'm coming around to on my read this morning.  From my playing with superdeath I do agree that being curt is a characteristic of his, especially when cornered, but he also needs to participate more otherwise it's going to look more like he's trying to fly under the radar.  However, this gaspar-lewwyn lovefest you mention is also something I'm picking up on today's read of the overnight stuff.  I'm more suspicious of Lewwyn than Gaspar myself, for reasons stated earlier in this post.

[Commodore]

Comm:
I need a day to see how I feel about Gaspar. You can hate that or not, its just the truth. Some of his posts felt forced some felt natural. I'm not making a full judgement on that yet, we're not even a full 24 hours into the game!

Hey, you're right, I hate it.

I agree that superdeath can appear scummy by nature of who he is. Basically half the time you want to bop him on the head. Its why I didn't vote for him right away. He''s either scum or an easy mislynch. But he has been far below my expected activity of him and I completely understand the pressure to be put on him. And in fact since I'm not getting any traction on El Grillo, lets turn up the heat on Superdeath

Looks like I'm the only person in this game so far to successfully vote somebody out.  

Let's see what Commodore thinks now.

Bro. Weak. There are substantial hunts going on, get involved.

I don't think its weak. You are one of the substantial hunts.

Maybe? But this read as flippant, like he just tossed a name out for response.

This is maybe your most engaging post thus far in my opinion. I could go either way on you.

Go to town on me, Lewwyn.

I do like your post Commodore.
I do agree that SD can well be town.
I vote you because your defense for him is what a wolf would do on an easy later mislynch.

why did you vote Gaspar (who had 0 votes) and not Lewwyn (who has 1 vote already and an ongoing dispute with El Grillo)?

Because Gaspar reads more scum than Lewwyn, as I said. It's still early, why not try see if people other than Lewwyn are willing to poke him. I'm trying not to tunnel on the "Lewwyn-and-Gaspar-sitting-in-a-tree, being S-C-U-M bud-dies" impression, and Gaspar seems to be more laid back but grouchy, like Gaspar is when he gets a little wolf up in there.

Stuff

More stuff, ending in a Nauvote.

Feels like you're having an easy time getting involved in spats, not looking broadly. Can be wolfsign.

Commodore, your latest post comes across poorly for me. Long posts with mostly quotes and little new material aren't worth much unless the points being synthesized are conclusive.

Summarizing, you claim that:
1. Lewwyn and Gaspar's interactions are suspicious
2. superdeath isn't worth a lynch today
3. scooter's vote on you is weak

My responses to those points:
1. I can't speak to all the player-meta comments, but I also haven't been liking some of Gaspar's posts. Listing 7 players as scummy with reasoning for only a few of them is very unhelpful. I'd like for him to narrow that down substantially today. Half that would be more realistic for a 17-player game.
2. I disagree, if superdeath continues to try and hide behind his personal brand of style instead of posting more constructively, then everyone else can just throw up their hands and call him null, neither of which is helping town. Commodore, if you think that superdeath would be an easy mislynch at any time, isn't that the kind of player scum wants in endgame? As for waiting to see his play evolve, how about in the next 24 hours?
3. That's a pretty soft deflection considering at that point you hadn't contributed much, aside from the more blatant act that is ignoring my post and vote on you entirely. That level of deflection rises to scummy behavior in my perspective.

I'm keeping my vote on you.

Cool, sounds like you might be willing to join me on the Gaspar train. Let me dive through your post history and actually try and find your vote for me post.

[naufragar]

Two preliminary things: 1) I apologize for making an argument based on written English style. That was presumptuous. 2) I love you all, despite any venom in-game.

Back in character: Serdoa, I believe I have made arguments, and I think you haven’t responded to them. I think I’ve said my piece and me going on right now would just waste town oxygen. If other people want to participate, I’m happy to reengage.

My vote’s parked, and it would take a lot to budge, like if I was needed for a GKC lynch. I hope people will let me contribute without throwing my vote onto people I’m finding less suspicious than Serdoa.

[Commodore]

Commodore, are you usually so terse in these games? I would've expected you to have a bit more to say than the four brief statements you've made so far, one random vote in the opening minutes, another quickly joining pindicator on the GKC wagon, a third continuing to push GKC, and then a fluff defense of superdeath.

The second post in particular reads oddly to me:

I'll join you on GeneralKillCavalry, seems very eager to just hop all over the place.

Naufragar is nervous, twitchy, talkative...so about exactly how I'd expect nau to be in his very first WW.

What made naufragar's early Day 1 behavior acceptable but GKC's not? Were you intending to keep your vote on GKC until the deadline? Is that still the case now?

Okay, so...yeah, I'm usually that terse through dinner, kids' bedtimes, my Tuesday night Starfinder session, sleep, kids' breakfasts, getting them set up for school. Early stuff is for fluff. Now that there is substance, we can put away such childish things, and instead go hunt. 

GKC's behavior seemed much more confident and controlled than naufragar's, again going by gut. Don't worry about me keeping a vote on until deadline, but when I'm away, yeah, my vote won't change.

[Lewwyn]

You're asking the right questions? who is pushing nauf? Personally I think nauf is pushing nauf. But that may be Nauf pushing himself as a town or scum I admit that. But nauf is also very instructive for someone else as I'll explain later.

You're asking the right questions?  - don't follow what you mean here since I didn't write that sentence.  I'm telling GKC this is stuff to be asking now even if we do not have the answers yet.

And I have to admit, while I'm a little flattered by your post about my post here Lewwyn, I have my hackles up about how you do not catch my mistake on Gaspar's vote like Gaspar did but instead jump in with my conclusion.  This seems like something a town Lewwyn would be roasting me for.  Instead the response you give and the buddying up feels contrived.

I typoed a question mark there. That first question mark should be an ! but of course no editing. Basically my point here was that I was point to the first person to vote for nauf was El Grillo.

Don't be flattered, I was more focused on why you were wrong than right. Basically I wanted to point out that you were missing the connection on El Grillo and nauf and disabuse the notion that El Grillo was a good villager.  However the last few posts with El grillo have very much lowered my suspcions of him.

The bit about Gaspar, I didn't even really see the bus mistake because I was focused more on explaining my take on what gave Gaspar a scum feeling, which had nothing to do with the bus mistake vote.

#168
Commodore, there you are!  And you're writing about stuff that I'm coming around to on my read this morning.  From my playing with superdeath I do agree that being curt is a characteristic of his, especially when cornered, but he also needs to participate more otherwise it's going to look more like he's trying to fly under the radar.  However, this gaspar-lewwyn lovefest you mention is also something I'm picking up on today's read of the overnight stuff.  I'm more suspicious of Lewwyn than Gaspar myself, for reasons stated earlier in this post.

I really don't think there is much of a love fest and I've explained my stance on Gaspar several times now this morning. But why me over Gaspar then? Is this reverse shame? You made a mistake, got called out on it by Gaspar, and are less likely to vote for Gaspar now?

[Commodore]

My vote’s parked, and it would take a lot to budge, like if I was needed for a GKC lynch. I hope people will let me contribute without throwing my vote onto people I’m finding less suspicious than Serdoa.

Uh, so nothing you've said has really raised my hackles but this...this is bad. Please be willing to listen to other arguments; I'm certainly willing to listen to yours. There is a very high likelihood in a 17 player game that there are more than 1 wolf.

[Lewwyn]

My vote’s parked, and it would take a lot to budge, like if I was needed for a GKC lynch. I hope people will let me contribute without throwing my vote onto people I’m finding less suspicious than Serdoa.

Uh, so nothing you've said has really raised my hackles but this...this is bad. Please be willing to listen to other arguments; I'm certainly willing to listen to yours. There is a very high likelihood in a 17 player game that there are more than 1 wolf.

I agree with this. It all stood out to me.

Nauf, don't declare you are going park your vote for the day that's an easy wolf play to avoid being in on a mislynch and not having to be a part of discussions for the rest of the day. Very wolfy.

[naufragar]

My vote’s parked, and it would take a lot to budge, like if I was needed for a GKC lynch. I hope people will let me contribute without throwing my vote onto people I’m finding less suspicious than Serdoa.

Uh, so nothing you've said has really raised my hackles but this...this is bad. Please be willing to listen to other arguments; I'm certainly willing to listen to yours. There is a very high likelihood in a 17 player game that there are more than 1 wolf.

Apologies. I didn't mean it like that. Of course I'm not 100% certain on Serdoa. (This is not me backing down!) I meant that he's my leading candidate, but I'd still like to be able to have other discussions without people think I'm flip-flopping. My comment about GKC was meant to say that I'd vote at the end of the day for who I think is most scummy (currently Serdoa) but for who I think is more scummy if it's between two people and my vote helps lynch someone I've got a wolf-read on.

Not an edit but seeing I'm crossposting with Lewwyn: Again, apologies. My point with this was so that I'd be able to have more discussion. I take it back.

[Rowain]

My vote’s parked, and it would take a lot to budge, like if I was needed for a GKC lynch. I hope people will let me contribute without throwing my vote onto people I’m finding less suspicious than Serdoa.

So you do want to get GKC lynched but not anyone else but Serdoa? Currently SD and  Commodore are frontrunners so your vote does exactly nothing. Please if you are town do contribute and look  whom else you might find wolf-like and whom you rather safe from the gallows. Sitting on a 1-vote guy all day long is harmful for the town.

[AdrienIer]

naufragar feels towny to me, not 100% but good enough. The vote parking is bad though, so I'm hoping he turns around on that. I'm not going to project RB meta on the newbies right away without letting them adapt

Waiting for SD to expand on stuff. I don't really want to take the pressure off when he hasn't given me a reason to do that. I mean, literally the only suspicion that he expressed towards a player (in his last post) he didn't vote on.