WW 46: Wolves Return to Realms Beyond

[pindicator]

First paragraph was directed to scooter, sorry.

[Commodore]

Well, that's not true.  It was lining up to be you-vs-me before the night actions.  The case against you was a lazy day 1 where you copied others arguments to the point where you mixed up on AdrienIer - first saying you didn't see the case and then saying he was your #2.  The case against me has been that I've voted AdrienIer to cover for Cyneheard and so therefore one of AdrienIer or I has to be a wolf.  Meiz didn't like the tone of my posts on day 1.  The only part that was mirrored was our hilarious timed cross post.

Commodore in 731 seems to think I was redirected, not jailed.  If there's a jailing in Commodore's scenario then there's an unexplained second kill.  But he is also appealing to a wolf jailer in this post.  Commodore, can you clarify?

Sorry, I was imprecise, I realize Jailer is a specific role, I was speaking about a more general jailer or roleblocker, there are like half a dozen blocker-style roles.

[scooter]

Well, that's not true.  It was lining up to be you-vs-me before the night actions.  The case against you was a lazy day 1 where you copied others arguments to the point where you mixed up on AdrienIer - first saying you didn't see the case and then saying he was your #2.  The case against me has been that I've voted AdrienIer to cover for Cyneheard and so therefore one of AdrienIer or I has to be a wolf.  Meiz didn't like the tone of my posts on day 1.  The only part that was mirrored was our hilarious timed cross post.

I've explained pretty thoroughly over and over again that I felt the case on everyone was weak on day 1, and I felt like Lewwyn was lying late on day 1 to save somebody, so I wanted to get more of an answer out of him. That's not at all incongruous with thinking pretty seriously about voting for Adrien. I felt like Lewwyn was making up a lot of BS during day 1, and I wanted to give him the opportunity to hang himself if Bob flipped wolf. I definitely considered joining him on Adrien because it would have provided some interesting info, but I decided against it, largely because I thought he was full of it.


Most people have understood that though, because the prevailing reason people other than you want to hang me is because there's a trail of dead that look really bad for me. Commodore has cited it almost exclusively. The same trail exists for you, though, but funny how nobody else wants to talk about it. They'd rather pack it in and wait 24 hours. Wonder why.

[pindicator]

Holy shit, CMF. You're posts are awful. I've gotten mesmerized into skimming your walls-of-text, but holy shit. Still on day 2. I have multiple "WHAT!?"s in my notes right now. Stuff that makes no sense so far:

Superdeath, Bob, and Cyneheard on day 1.
In #122 we get your first long list of names and rundowns. You say you do not like superdeath's play here.
#275 - Superdeath is an "honest guy" and "doesn't have it in him to deceive". He thinks the Bob wagon is "too quiet" and that he would have defended us the same way. Gives scum reads on GKC and naufrager. But he's going to keep his vote on superdeath anyway.
#316 - Says he does not feel good about keeping his vote on superdeath but cannot find a better candidate. You just listed two candidates in your last post! Says Bob is a strong mislynch candidate. Cyneheard is his other option and says he would rather vote for Cyneheard than Bob but that he does not want to vote for either. Now he says superdeath is giving off strong scummy vibes and has a weak defense and that his vote on superdeath is risk mitigation.

Again: WHAT!? You list superdeath as scummy at first, then say you think he is honest and can't deceive from his posts but are still going to vote for him despite listing people you say are scummier, and then when it comes to superdeath v cyneheard v bob at the end you think Cyneheard is scummier but now superdeath is scummy again and you are going to vote for him?

Scooter in Day 2
Post #498
Attacks Lewwyn for his posts against scooter.
Admits superdeath was not a good vote but at least it was not a bad vote (?). "Cyneheard I felt less slightly town on (thank goodness) but not confident enough to be the deciding vote on him." Says he was trying to "do no harm". Now he gives superdeath MILD town vibes. Emphasizes mild. Calls him super quiet and says there are better targets.
GKC is quiet. Doesn't give any reason for suspicion other than GKC has been quiet until recently when he came out against scooter. CMF says he is team scooter "at the moment".
Mentions Commodore, but talks about scooter more. Says he likes scooter's argument that there were wolves on Bob's wagon and of those says he likes Scooter, Commodore, and AdrienIer the most. Didn't you just say you were team scooter earlier in the same post?
He votes AdrienIer because AdrienIer was on Bob day 1.
Talks about scooter directly now, says scooter started silly but that his actions "have largely tracked with me". Gives him town points for an early town read of El Grillo (dude, I gave El Grillo an early town read and you didn't give me any town points for that) and says scooter's logic has been generally solid and clear. Says he likes scooter's explanation for Bob's vote. Didn't you just say you scooter was among your likely candidates for wolf for being on the Bob voters?

So yeah, I'm still reading but this is all slippery, scummy stuff. He doesn't want to nail himself down to anything and I'm not seeing at all how people who are scummy don't get votes but people he says are not scummy do get voted for. Full version coming later, but I need to actually do some work today too.

[Commodore]

Neat. I'd love to hear a response on that one, CMF.

[Rowain]

@Serdoa

Lets presume we don't lynch scooter today (little chance for that to happen as most of the people have clearly called it a day already) how to proceed tomorrow.
The pindi-scooter problem won't go away. As both claimed 1shot vig they can't proof it any longer. Plain simple if those 2 tell the truth the game is lost.

I just hate that we don't even discuss other possibilities. If we lynch GKC and he is a wolf-jailer, our problem with pindi-scooter does go away. Is that likely? No, I admit that freely. But we could at least discuss about it, ponder on it. Even if we lynch scooter, what then? If he comes up wolf, do we lynch pindicator next anyway? If he comes up village, do we lynch pindicator still? I'm not even sure on most players stance about the two and what each result actually would mean going forward. And imo right now, what we do is simply bad town play. It sets us up to get played by the wolves and a potential 3rd party. Yeah, it is easier I admit, and we have enough posts form everyone that going through them is a chore. But still, just waiting like 44 hours around and making jokes seems not a good use of our time.

I agree with your post and like you I don't see a good way forward with scooter/pindicator. No matter the result - we need to lynch both.

But I'm willing and GKC has been on my scumlist for some time: GeneralKilCavalry

[pindicator]

Rowain, what are your thoughts on CMF?

I really am starting to dislike how you always "have to" lynch me in your reads, for the last two days now.

[Charriu]

I'm still trying to re-read up on scooter and apparently I might have to re-read GKC, too? Problem is I'm just exhausted from the real day and can't really make a good judgement about anything right now. What I was able to finish already was my re-read on pindicator.

So pindicator here are two things I want to know from you.

1. Just curious, but why did you want to know, who's a first timer on day 1? (#57)
   
2. If you are a vig, why did you want to shoot scooter when you said 30 minutes before day 2 deadline: "Lewwyn, I don't see it on scooter" (#647)? The "it" in that quote I assume was scooter being a wolf? If you have already answered this feel free to point me to that post.
   

[pindicator]

[*]Just curious, but why did you want to know, who's a first timer on day 1? (#57)

[*]

One of my first reads on day 1 was that it felt like one of naufrager or GeneralKilCavalry was scum. Naufrager was getting a bunch of attention, but I did not like GeneralKilCavalry's posts either.  But when someone brought up that one of them was new I second guessed myself and thought that I could just be picking up on people not used to the meta here.  I wanted to know who else was new after that.

[*]If you are a vig, why did you want to shoot scooter when you said 30 minutes before day 2 deadline: "Lewwyn, I don't see it on scooter" (#647)? The "it" in that quote I  assume was scooter being a wolf? If you have already answered this feel free to point me to that post.

[*]

[*]

I explain that one in post 726

More specifically, I say that everyone should read Lewwyn's argument at the end of day 2 in post 629.  I hadn't read this argument closely because between trying to read everything and write out my own thoughts I was rushing and skimming a bit.  But after the deadline Lewwyn was so adamant about being right on Scooter I went back and read his argument a couple times to make sure I was getting it right.  And when I did see that it was more than just the stuff in early day 2 that I had dismissed, that the arguments reflected around Scooter's change in how he recalled thinking about AdrienIerm that he hasn't come out with his own arguments but only copied others, those arguments made sense to me.

[Rowain]

Rowain, what are your thoughts on CMF?

I really am starting to dislike how you always "have to" lynch me in your reads, for the last two days now.

I don't want to lynch him today. I liked his big post. But I do note that he stopped exactly before the one I'm currently voting to lynch.