WW 46: Wolves Return to Realms Beyond

[naufragar]

I had hoped nobody would take me up on it! I still have two civ turns to play, and I’ve already been called out in one tech thread for playing too slowly. Here you go. I have not copy-pasted everything GKC wrote on Day 1. If someone wants to hold that against me, show how that affects the argument, please.
 
I’ll do the long quotes so y’all can read for yourselves. My commentary at the bottom. Most bolding is mine. First post is GKC’s reply to my attack on him and Serdoa.

Repeating something once is hardly parroting, you are grasping at straws.
 
I think I've found the hundred-post long fallout of your minor comment to be sufficient proof that my vote was well-placed in prodding you for more of a response as you further slide into pearl-clutching. My three latter responses were to make sure people don't interpret my first two votes as part of any meaningful. My first real game action here was to point our your sudden defensiveness to Rowain's comment. Speaking of which Rowain's comment was not substantive in any way, he's what, pointing out your joke vote is not in line with your observations? Your subsequent reaction was much more problematic. You two have had some awkward interactions, frankly. You're hard defending him now, which isn't a problem in and of itself, but the action chain :
 
 
5. pindi votes Rowain
6. naufr votes Pindi
 
 
Occurred within a  5 minute timespan.
 
Your behavior is most perplexing to me. One theory I could construct out of this is that you made an amateur slip-up with both you and rowain as scum, and he redirected you. I don't believe this explanation because rowain has behaved in a very amicable and town-like fashion, but again, you've been... awkward around him?
 
Serdoa, if your self-vote was meant to provoke a reaction, kudos to you.
 
I'm keeping my vote on nauf for now while I get through the rest of this thread and find something more juicy. I'll document these below:
 
I need to read what this commodore-SD drama is... and lmao ppl are just going off 1 single interaction? Yeah, I don't see any issues there...

 
 

Lynch bob, and we get some minimal info on llewyn? Bob has barely been contentious.
 
Lynch SD, if he is mafia, his targets are likely town because bad mafia. If he is town, late-bandwagoners/defenders are suspect.
 
SD not-playing is non-unique, a few other players are not interacting much (see bob).
 
This doesn't mean, that between bob and SD, I would choose to lynch bob, but I feel everyone is coming down a bit hard on SD without a chance for him to defend.
 
The biggest information lynch is nauf, but I have no confidence he is scum. Nonetheless, I keep my vote on nauf unless someone can convince me otherwise.

 

Almost. Right now, it's "hey let's push people so they break".
 
I still find it far better to vote for nauf over you.
 
What do you think of the situation right now? Anyone look suspicious to you?

 

 
Read a post like this. [Editor's note: GKC has copied Serdoa's long reply into the body of this post. Click the link to view.] This is not banter. I'm trying to help you out here SD, but every post is digging you deeper in the eyes of players who want a quick lynch.
 
Again, I think lynching you is a low-information move, but it's the easiest thing to do.

 

#10
Cyneheard's first post, some fluff against scooter, whatever...
 
Then, cyneheard graciously provided me with the vote tag syntax. Notes: no reaction to me fake voting on him. Take that as you will, I don't believe in overinterpreting this kind of stuff.
 
#70 - a while later
 
So this one is interesting. Cyneheard was prompted, he replied exactly to the questions posted.
 
#146
I don't see anything special here, just repeating much of the same.
 
 
And then just jumping on the SD bandwagon.
 
I agree that not pushing back against SD just now is a bit scummy.

 

I don't want you [i.e. Superdeath] lynched this night.
 
 Bobchillingworth

 

I still most suspect nauf out of everyone here. My vote for you bob is because killing SD would give absolutely no information, so if it's between you two, I'm expressing preference. I'd absolutely like the nauf-bandwagon to start off again because it best exposes the nature his interactions with serdoa and rowain.

 
Alright. Before SD enters the game for real, GKC keeps a vote on me for the early game reasons, promises to find something more juicy. (If I have left out that more juicy thing, by all means point it out. Nothing jumps to mind.) At this point he’s not calling me scum. He later explains his vote on me as an information lynch: “I have no confidence he’s scum.”
 
Then Superdeath joins. I believe at this point, GKC tries to use Superdeath as town cover. He thinks he can get Superdeath to vote along with him, without making an argument, hence “I still find it far better to vote for nauf over you.” The conversation at that point is about Bob and Superdeath’s low participation. He doesn’t repeat his argument about me (and, true, he doesn’t have to) but he slides that suspicion in so SD can grab on to it.
 
Superdeath doesn’t bite. Well, GKC doesn’t give up. “Again, I think lynching you is a low-information move, but it's the easiest thing to do.” We get a little bit of a threat (lynching you is easy. Give me a reason not to.) combined with an exhortation for a high-information lynch. (He’s named me as an info-lynch.) He doesn’t explain why my lynch gives more information than Bob or Superdeath. Please be very clear on this point: I’m not talking about the scumminess of Bob-SD-me, because GKC isn’t. His argument is that of the three, I give the most information. Huh?
 
I’ve added in his digression on Cyneheard to remind anyone it’s soft and doesn’t go anywhere. Meiz picked up on how weak that was.
 
Then GKC votes for Bob over Superdeath. His professed reason is that he doesn’t want SD lynched. Others have pointed out the wolfiness of GKC picking Bob over Cyneheard.
 
 
“My vote for you bob is because killing SD would give absolutely no information, so if it's between you two, I'm expressing preference.” Compare this with him being the sole vote on me D2.
 
I’m trying to just focus on his interaction with Superdeath. I think he uses innuendo (which I’ve called out before) to get SD onto me. Because of the way he interacts with Superdeath, I don’t read this as one wolf talking to another, but one wolf trying to manipulate a villager.

[BRickAstley]

Tally as of post 813:

Lynch votes
5 votes: scooter (Charriu, Commodore, pindicator, GeneralKilCavalry, superdeath)
4 votes: GeneralKilCavalry (Serdoa, Rowain, scooter, naufragar)

Voting history:

SCOOTER

pindicator

scooter

Pindicator

Scooter

scooter

pindicator

scooter

Scooter

scooter

Scooter

Cyneheard

Cyneheard

GeneralKillCavalry

GeneralKilCavalry

GeneralKilCavalry

GeneralKilCavalry

Three and a half hours remaining.

[Charriu]

Thanks nauf.

I will give GKC a thorough investigation (or as thorough as I can in the rest of time). I might be overlooking things here. If GKC does respond here to the accusations at hand, that would be much appreciated.

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

So I've been mulling over my vote all night. School starts in thirty minutes for me, so this is the last chance I get. My two choices are scooter or GKC, it seems.

Like I said, I'm all at sea. I don't trust my own reads - I read Commodore the exact same as Adrien, who was town. So I'm null on Commodore now. I read scooter as town, but for the inverse of the reasons I thought Adrien was scum. Can't trust that. I wanted to reread pindicator and GKC, but I didn't because I was tired (or lazy. Take your pick. Bad villager, I know). Lewwyn I was back and forth on but, to my credit, I did settle on town on the grounds of his actions more than his words. So I should pay his words more attention, and he was being sincere in his attacks on scooter.

Been staring at that last paragraph for fifteen minutes. Agonizing over this one. I honestly believe that lynching scooter today would give us more information. We'd resolve the pindi/scooter conflict one way or the other, we'd more or less sort out the Adrien lynch. However, scooter did and still does give me town vibes. He's either a villager, or as Lewwyn said, a great wolf. If he's a great wolf, though, would he have killed Lewwyn, knowing he'd be an obvious target for a lynch today? Could have figured Lewwyn was coming after him either way and wanted his argumetns off the table, but it's also the most brain-dead easy way for a wolf to get fingers pointing at scooter.

GKC, on the other hand, I don't have a good read on, because I never went back to do my read. Naufragar has his own take up above...Mostly focused on Day 1 actions. The vote for Bob over Cyneheard seems strongest to me. Of the people on GKC, I don't really trust any of them at this point. Of the people on scooter, I only sort of trust Charriu and maybe Commodore (again, null on him). Pindicator is either a townie sincerely pressing me to explain a vote he's worried about, or he's a wolf setting me up for tomorrow's mislynch. He did start the Adrien train. GKC has the stuff above. superdeath is superdeath. On GKC, Serdoa I think is town. Rowain I go back and forth on, scooter I have talked a lot about but don't trust my gut anymore, and naufragar is...hm.

I'm going to GKC, I think. This will still be a scooter lynch, because of the tie. Anyone can alter the outcome by swapping their vote, as a result. Ultimately, this was a coin toss. I think scooter isn't a wolf, but lynching him would clarify lots of things. GKC I think might be a wolf, and I vaguely trust the people voting for him slightly more than the people voting for scooter. If it's this tight and we lynch a villager, too, then either we had two villagers up and no wolves (possible) or all the wolves will likely be in the lynch camp, so that should narrow things down.

I don't feel good about any of this, but I know I have to vote, so there it is. I'll TRY to check between classes to see if anyone can persuade me one way or the other on scooter or GKC. I really am on a razor's edge.

[Commodore]

Holy crap on a cracker. Are we REALLY faffing about on General Kill Cavalry after the Great Doubleclaim of Scum? Who should I be properly enraged at?

CMF, you're playing one hell of a first-time scum game, props to you. Roland's returned better than ever.
Rowain, good job as well, as always. That your willful resistance to the pure logic of a Scooter lynch (so glad you found a way to relieve your heavy heart) isn't being flogged by the whole village is a testament.
Scooter, you're doing it man, you really might skate. Have an insoluble logic chain that leads to your lynching being logically required? Don't address it, look, a squirrel. It is working.
Serdoa...really sucks about the dentist.
Okay, so....NOW FROGGER. YOU UTTER MORON. VOTE SCOOTER. I WILL RIP YOUR FREAKING HEAD OFF AND SHIT DOWN YOUR SPINE. GET. ON. SCOOTER. IF THIS MORONIC VILLAGE CANNOT LYNCH A WOLF AFTER A CLAIM LIKE THAT I AM OFFICIALLY JOINING THE WOLVES.

[Commodore]

GeneralKilCavalry

Charriu, I think everybody shares or at least expresses your view. Pindicator and Scooter are both scummy, both, frankly, for pretty much the same reasons (Day 1 into Day 2 Adrien stuff). Scooter referred to moving to GKC as “kicking the can down the road,” but that’s not it at all. Of the pair, I’m currently leaning towards Scooter as the worse. If we lynch Scooter and he turns up wolf, what next? We still have Pindicator, who remains wolfy for all the reasons brought up today. If Scooter flips town, we still have Pindicator, and everybody who pushed Scooter can hide behind the fact that they were repeating Lewwyn’s arguments. We have our debate mapped out for two (in-game) days. Do we think night actions are going to shed light on that? Because I don’t think revealing either person’s alignment solves the problem of the other.

Ok, let’s say you agree with me that GKC is a wolf. Town is being funneled down a two day path: Scooter or Pindicator lynch today, then the other gets lynched or at least takes up the majority of our oxygen tomorrow. Resist that dichotomy. Pop a wolf that the wolf team isn’t holding up as a sacrifice. Use GKC’s alignment to read into the Pind/Scooter fight.

No.

[Rowain]

@Commodore Why are you sure that GKC is not scum?

Or is your rage that an easy victory might slip through your paws?

[naufragar]

Okay, so....NOW FROGGER. YOU UTTER MORON. VOTE SCOOTER. I WILL RIP YOUR FREAKING HEAD OFF AND SHIT DOWN YOUR SPINE. GET. ON. SCOOTER. IF THIS MORONIC VILLAGE CANNOT LYNCH A WOLF AFTER A CLAIM LIKE THAT I AM OFFICIALLY JOINING THE WOLVES.

Why on earth don't you think I'm scum?

[Commodore]

@Commodore  Why are you sure that GKC is not scum?

Or is your rage that an easy victory might slip through your paws?

Come now, let's be gentlemen, this gloating is in poor taste. If he's scum, he's a serial killer, just looking at the wolf-bus on him. 

@Rowain What magic dust was sprinkled upon the logic train that led to your heavy-hearted vote for Scooter? How did it disappear?

[pindicator]

I'm reading over coffee this morning and do we seriously want to kick the scooter-me thing down the road!?