WW48: Melllvar's Grand Competition!

[Rowain]

Rowain, save your answer for the deadline (I'm really not liking all this night talk), but what are your thoughts on Gaspar?

Towny.
His strong push on Commodore would be high risk low reward if he is scum and Comm town.

[Rowain]

@pindicator:

Why did you want to get lynched on Day 1?

What are your reads of people (not only Gaspar)?

[AdrienIer]

The amount of interaction tonight is quite interesting too. It's usually bad for town but there may be good reasons for it this time, who knows.

Do you think Meiz is scum?

Yesterday at deadline I'd have said no. I'm tired as hell right now so my mind is fuzzy, and realizing this made me doubt myself. And I participated in the amount of interactions myself so it would be stupid to accuse others of doing it.

Work got in the way and I couldn't reread Commodore before deadline. Assuming I'm still here I'll post it ASAP.

[Meiz]

I think the night talk is bad since we should be taking a break from the game for our mental health.

[Kaiser]

The kill that was supposed to help us narrow down possibilities just let us down. Scum didn't know he wasn't one of them, but he was anti town so everyone voting him out was right to do so. Great.

Here's a pretty sure statement that scum didn't know thrawn's role.

I skimmed over his role PM and initially thought it was mutual

In any case, I believe we have to assume the WW did not know thrawns role until we get confirmation, which likely will be only after the game.

What are the positive points for you? Feel free to use more than 5 words

His tone feels fine. I see no sign of scumminess, but the "as an american he should have read through GES's posts easily" argument gives me pause because I can hardly be a judge on that. So not quite town read but no reason to want to see him dead yet. I'll try a reread before the end of the night and will post if it changes my mind or if I get reminded of a moment I liked.

That is my issue with the commodore train as well, I need to reread it though as I sadly hat nearly no time today.

Quick "out of the hip"
Investigate:
- Jabbz + Alhambram policy lynches still valid?
- Commodore in depth to see if the is a case beyond "surprisingly did not understand GES
- pindicator quite some content recently
- Rowain still suspicious for low contribution?
- Lewwyn participation ramped up, positive started thrawn train but how exactly did this happen
- novice has a slight bad taste at the moment, I do not yet know why

Town leans:
Meiz

[AdrienIer]

I think the night talk is bad since we should be taking a break from the game for our mental health.

This too yes. I might have to take a break at some point during D2. And D3 will be a nightmare for me due to work. Yay.

[Meiz]

My top scum picks are:

Commodore

His D1 is lazy for his standards, mostly sitting on Gaspar (who seems town to me) for very early game read (https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752529).
Or in other words:

Commodore basically has been on me all day because he didn't like some nonsense from the early part of the day.  He's also been very argumentative, while both feeling no pressure and having no town reads.  Feels scummy.

Well, he was also suspicious of GES which is a minor plus if GES is scum. But that's his D1 suspicions in total as far as I can see. Just the general lack of effort & reads puts him my priority lynch target for day 2.

Gazglum, I think Commodore also fits to your idea of scum not eager to share their town reads, which Gasapr also pointed out in the quote above.

I think Gaspar's foresight on his end day was spot on, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752849
Commodore came back, but was very reactionary and in self preservation mode. Nothing in his posts suggests how genuinely he was up to date with the thread. Self-preservation is the easiest vote for a scum to justify regardless. Nothing in his D1 explains his preferences to vote for Pind or thrawn in the end. Just as long as it's not him. There was plenty of time to comment others than Gaspar & GES for D1. So no Commodore, I don't think this is the weakest case in the history, it's pretty valid reason for saying you are scum.


Pindicator

I stand by my D1 read on him. The lack of scum hunting is a big tell for me (and I'm sure he will disagree, good thing he can try to prove me wrong D2), as well as the static read on sunrise being (slightly) suspicious due to suspecting Gaspar. I think I've said my piece on this matter. I agree with Cyneheard  (#253) and Cyneheard + novice (#251)


Gold Ergo Sum

I think he just went with sunrise's reasoning for voting & suspecting Gaspar, which is an easy way to play the game for a wolf (assumign sunrise is town, just follow town lead to your target).
Otherwise suspicious of Lewwyn's quiet early play. Threw shade on Commodore (https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752548) but never voted him.
"Strangest thing I saw all game was Doc changing his vote right after you to jump on Bee-boy after Doc had the most early votes. Maybe self-preservation, but usually junkies ain't real self-preserving, you feel."
I don't think the very early bandwagonings and vote switches are a sign of Gaspar trying self-preservation, so I disagree with the reasoning for his vote.
Then a later list of players naming Gaspar, Commodore & Lewwyn suspicious, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752611

All in all I see a very surface level play, which is easily doable for wolves. Would be happy to vote today.
I did find his night post a bit better though, giving a small pause, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753136


Jabbz
See post https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753154
Let's see how his game improves now that we're on day 2. I feel like him dismissing the Commodore D1 case is not a great start though. Maybe take another look if there's some merit to these suspicions.

Overall, I think there needs to be some real investigation on how up to date he actually is with this game. If Commodore is scum, I wouldn't still give a pass for him just for putting a vote on him.


Not convinced all are scum together, but this would be my place to start the lynching.

--

Gazglum

Unsure, and depends a bit on GES's & Pind's alignment (as Gaz voted Pind). Reasonable posts, and I like the general idea of "GES scum avoids giving town reads", but overall his game seems a bit clean and well in the realms of wolf-play. I'm used to a town leading Gazglum while here he's more of a follower except for the read on GES. I did like his post on players when it was time to choose a vote target, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752703

Also GES's stuff is so lazy it hurts my head but I can't get annoyed with him because he's RP'ing a character I really like.  And generally, people who aren't Rowain who annoy me usually are scum.  So I keep thinking he's not scum because he's not annoying me but he's probably not annoying me because he's really just making me want to re-watch the wire.

This is just bubble brain waffle. And other than that, he's just trying to placate me! Apologises for his flip-floppery but doesn't bring any new thoughts.  "I'm having a hard time", "have to do a re-read". Obviously I've never met this silver fox before, but if I had I might mention that this reminds me of his werewolf play back in WW36 or so, where he spent three days promising to 'get in gear' tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow. 

I like the angry little bald man.

What is your current take on Gaspar, does he still give you the WW36 feeling?

Who's the bald man? Bob?


Lewwyn

Like I said earlier, in hindsight his hammering of thrawn seems better. Understandable and good points for thrawn's contrast with his earlier town game. I still think he should be reviewed thoroughly if we had scum on top, as then Lewwyn would have motivation to push a seemingly town player as a new target (assuming wolves wouldn't know thrawn's role). His early absense and late arrival to the thread to hammer thrawn is still giving me pause on town-Lewwyn, since it makes his D1 narrower than I'd like. But the accusations against thrawn are valid, so I would get back to this later if needed.


Rowain

I'm neutral/townsih on him despite putting his name in red earlier. Seems like his standard town-play, with short and pinpointed remarks and votes while seemingly staying up to date with the game events. His couple of nighttime posts would put him more towards town side for me:

https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753237
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753246
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid753248

I was initally suspicious of his switch away from Commodore and preference to vote thrawn over Pindicator, but thrawns role reveal makes me reconsider that read.


The players in null-land for me are.

Bobchillingworth - George Costanza
Alhambram - Homer
AdrienIer - Ron Swanson

No strong tells they'd be town, but no scum alarms going off either.

Though I think AdrienIer fits as Commodore's scum buddy with his end of day posts and votes.
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752802
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752820
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752844
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752863
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752875

--

The top 2 town for me are:

sunrise

His reason for suspecting Gaspar was well explained, reasonable and understandable.

https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752522
"If Gaspar can look at where the state of the game was when Meiz made his four posts and point out a specific opportunity "awesome villager" Meiz passed up then I'll consider this settled. But what it looks like to me is a wolf-Gaspar picked someone with lots of posts and who was getting a little heat and piled on without taking the time to read closely enough to know whether there was any actual substance for Meiz or anyone else to scum-hunt on when the vote was put out there."

And the followup post https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752629

I find following his train of thought easy, and did not get malicious intent of scum tunneling on a target, as he continued to give out reads (https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752637)


WarriorKnight

I love his RP.

Oh.. I also find following his train of thought easy and the suspicions seem genuine.
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752679
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752684
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752691
But of course the biggest plus is him agreeing with me, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752717


Next up in the seems to be town list:

novice

I like his take on Gaspar, and the vote on Commodore, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752702
I also like the reason for being suspicious of Commodore.

I've got to reread but so far I feel like Commodore is being attacked for not taking an hour to parse through GES's posts. I didn't either, and thanks to that person (I'll find who it was on reread) who translated it. I'm not a native english speaker so I might have a better reason to not put in the effort but still, I get it.

But you didn’t vote Omar for being lazy scum two posts prior to dismissing the post we’re discussing.

True. But Gaspar also called GES lazy scum, even though he seemed to be reading through his posts fine.

My point is that you should make an effort to understand the contents of your suspect's only post of substance. Unless you already know your case is bogus, and would rather throw shade indicating that the lazy scum is just lazy and not making cases.

In general, participating and getting genuine feeling for reasons he is basing his suspicion on.


Gaspar

I agree with novice's view above on him getting a bit stuck on defending his initial vote against me. Still, I like he went through the effort of explaining the thought process behind it to sunrise, and don't see the vote itself suspicious. Makes sense from town perspective to show his accuser why they are wrong. I don't think he's holding back on giving reads and haven't had any alarm bells going off on his reads either. For example.

https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752753
Gaspar is voting Commodore here, which  puts him a very valid lynch candidate at the time. Worth noting if Commodore's name comes up red later. This also makes Commodore vote Pind quickly after (https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752759).
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752766
And the comment on Kaiser hitting a critical with his massive post is spot on Gaspar  

I liked his read on Commodore, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752810
Btw. Pindicator never gave up in the end

https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752838

All in all, feels genuinely scum hunting, and shares openly his view of players.


Cyneheard

Seems more on towny side when compared to his previous scum game. That game he seemed to have trouble giving out genuine thoughts, and in this game he seems much more relaxed and open.

I like his observation in https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752707
"My clearest read is leaning town on sunrise. This makes Pind's tunneling on sunrise even weirder - disagreements happen, but I have a hard time seeing how anyone else would get an honest read other than a town lean on sunrise."


Kaiser
His massive post gives more of a town lean, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid752749
Otherwise freely giving out his thoughts, and understandable vote on thrawn due to contrast in his town game. No scum vibes for me.

[Lewwyn]

I'm a lot less confident about any voting analysis since thrawn was traitor. I think Rowain is making the same points that I was thinking about in terms of the possibility of whether the wolves knew or not about thrawn.

Here's the question for me. I know I'm a villager and I had to push very very hard to get people onto the thrawn train. Is it because villagers were more convinced of pindi and comm or because wolves didn't want to bus their traitor? If pindi is a wolf then he was on the thrawn train very early and he never left it. Either he, as a wolf, was willing to bus a traitor or he didn't know and he stayed on thrawn because he felt thrawn was a mislynch. He didn't move to Comm to save himself. I find it very hard to believe that Comm and Pindi are both wolves and that village had 3! scum on the block. I don't think that Day 2 should just come down to pindi and comm. Yes one of them could easily be scum. Both of them could be scum. Or neither. Between the 2 I think I lean... shit man I don't know. Pindi? I think pindi was definitely not pressing hard enough at the end, not sure if its work or not, but yeah it does feel like he had a lot less urgency. And honestly at the end there I was so focused on lynching thrawn that I didn't care who helped or who voted for him. I figured we'd sort it out in the aftermath. Though of course its much less cut and dried than I'd hoped.

Some other various thoughts and questions before the deadline:

I like meiz and don't think he's scum, he's too active, and clearly rying to hunt during the night because he fears he won't be here Day 2. Meiz what's your reasoning on Rowain?

I don't trust Gaspar's last minute waffle and vote for pindi after thrawn had already taken the lead. But hey I also do think his tone is townie. Gaspar can you replay your thoughts at that time?

I think I like novice, I can't tell if its because he's agreed with me on things or not. Would you vote for comm or are you past comm now novice?

I'm super wary of Adrien. I don't like the way the thrawn vote came down or how he originally had voted before he swapped to thrawn. He's being a pit too pithy. Can't tell if its part of the RP or if he's holding back. Adrien what about commodore? you chose pindi over comm why?

ALhambram, no lynch is anti town because now I can't tell what your opinion was before the lynch we have no read of what you would have done. So, who would you have voted for at the end if you'd been online?

WK I'm not sold on you yet either way. I don't think you've really made me feel like you were pushing anything. If you can't vote for pindi or me who would it be and why?

Sunrise why is my attack on thrawn scummy?

Gaz ole buddy ole pal, you scum mate? I feel like you might be scum. I feel like your interactions are less interactions and more of inserted commentary that aren't actually pushing anyone but rather providing your thoughts, which okay glad to have your opinions, but I'm not sure you're acting on them. Who would you vote for today if you couldn't vote for Pindi?

Jabbz sorry about your eyes. I think posting will decrease as more people die. That's usually the way of it. I feel like you've been very blank slatey to me, I'm having a hard time pinning your predilections down. Give me your top three suspicious people?

[pindicator]

@pindicator:

Why did you want to get lynched on Day 1?

Bucket list, pure and simple. Never been lynched day 1.

What are your reads of people (not only Gaspar)?

I spent the last hour reading closely on Commodore. I want to go back and see what the case was actually against him or if he was a train for a train's sake because I don't see anything scummy when I read his posts. I want to re-read the case against him and how that train started. He's calling out people for being hypocritical in some instances (Gaspar in #104, Lewwyn in #160)

I see a good reason for his early Meiz vote, but then when Meiz contributes he doesn't try to force anything by staying on him. He votes for Gaspar, attacking his vote on novice in #63, and I kind of agree with his reasoning.

People from the Commodore re-read that I want to re-read are yourself, Novice, Gold Ergo Sum, and Jabbz.

Other Impressions: I don't recall WarriorKnight doing anything other than RP with his puppets. So having him call me out as lazy scum feels hypocritical. Meiz leans town for me but good god Meiz, cut out the spam; 80+ posts is insane for 1 day and night. I don't like Novice from what I've seen in the Commodore re-read. Lewwyn is my strongest town read. And half of you who accuse others of being low content haven't exactly done all that much yourselves.

[Commodore]

eeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-*subsonic noises only audible to Sunrise*-EE(EEeeeeEEee)eeeeee *click* *chirp* ee, ayee. Tick tick katakatakata ee, yi reeer reeer ree. EEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeEEEreee, keya katata *chirp-churip* chEE. tch-EEE, ree reee tickatatatatatkakakakakakkkaa EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee chi-reeeeeeeeEEEEEE reer kee.

Eee'eeeE, cheee REEE *chiurp* reer ki EEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
<On the off chance I die (novice has been protecting me from nightkills at least, but a vig/SK is always possible), I don't have great reads here, just a couple thoughts. Pindicator started lazy-scummish, but I've been reading tone as more village tonight. I'm not convinced of course, and it makes me nervous that Rowain is setting up a sequence where scum Pindicator implicates me, but also village Pindicator means I should be lynched next. My own vote at the end of Day 1 was a hurried affair, basically tone-reading Thrawn as more scummy than Pindicator. I know if the scum knew about Thrawn that would definitely help clear my name but I don't think it is safe to assume that at all; safest assumption is that his lynch is a murky null-tell.

Still feel like GES is lazy scum but apparently I need to watch The Wire because he seems to have cleared himself via roleplay?>