WW48: Melllvar's Grand Competition!

[Jabbz]

Suspicion about your role didn't exactly start 5 minutes ago Meiz. We have been concerned about it since you brought it up.

[Rowain]

I believe I can safely confirm Omar's abilities, and my own. "Bee-boy" targeted Rowain. I dont know the likelihood of scum having a tracker, or of any other abilities giving information along those lines. To me however, that appears to clear Omar. Less certain about Pindicator, because we received no information on what his abilities were.

Thank you Omar. I thought long and hard, but had decided not to use my ability tonight. Catching your post last minute was a boon.

Well at least pindi did not kill me so that is a point in his favor.

[pindicator]

Where did I say I have to vote you today? I'm giving Gaspar credit for his D1, which you have ignored in your read.

I've just been informed by GM that my power has been ripped off, so I will be unable to proof anything. A nice power by the villains I suspect.

No, not ignored at all! Did you read Lewwyn's posts yesterday about Gaspar's D1? He says everything i was thinking here:

Gaspar votes for a number of people through day 1. Halfway through he votes for thrawn:

I see nothing to dissuade from my original diagnosis that youre all idiots.

I dont honestly remember what novices question was but any answer will have to wait for a non-mobile response.  My recollection is that he always thinks I'm scum anyway.

As far as sunrise, I play by feel. I don't expect everyone to agree with my methods but I don't play worrying about what others think. I voted for Meiz because I just watched Meiz play two games where he's either inquisitive or trying to lead the village from minute one. He didn't do that here. Im not judging him against your baseline, I'm judging him against his.  Period.

I don't have anything exciting to add beyond that. I still maintain novices original post as scummy but he's seemed novicey since then.  I don't like GESs posts. I dont like Commodore posts and I don't like Lewwyns posts. I really like WKs posts but they aren't helping. But I agree that thrawn feels like he's trying too hard.

Gazglum died for this:

I don't like Lewwyns posts. I really like WKs posts but they aren't helping. But I agree that thrawn feels like he's trying too hard.

You don't like Lewwyn's posts, but you like his reasoning on Thrawn? Do you think they might both be villains? Does it give you pause, joining Lewwyn on a vote?

Pretty sure.
His response to Gazglum:

Heh, I was just coming in here to say basically this.  I generally have a Lewwyn agnostic position on day one, as I've stated many times before, so when I read him a little off, I just let it lie until we have at least a day under our belts.  I do this because I know I'm predisposed to think him scummy and I'd rather wait until my scumdar is calibrated.

I'm having a hard time today, tbh.  I'm not sure if its the roleplay or if its something else but the last couple games I've read the scum just lept off the page at me.  I find myself today grasping at stuff - novice's post was a scummy thing to do but he's seemed relatively useful since then; Commodore is irritating me but its probably because he's Commodore or because he's roleplaying a dolphin; I find myself glossing over the posts who are RP'ing characters I'm not familiar with; thrawn feels fake but I'm not sure if its because he's trying too hard because he caught flack in the last game or if its because he's scum.  

I'll have to do a re-read but I don't really love hunting that way, I prefer it to occur more naturally.  And I really don't like doubting myself.  I seem to recall the first RP game pissing me off too, so maybe that is it.

I have to reread? Gaspar on Day 1, also the woe is me is here as well. I thought woe is me was scummy Gaspar?

Sunrise calls Gaspar on his thrawn vote:

Who is saying thrawn is trying too hard? Aren't they all actually saying he's holding back and being much less active than he was as town in WW47? Are you again joining a wagon without bothering to read what the wagon driver's claims are??

He's trying too hard not to be thrawn from WW47.  He caught a fair bit of flack in the lurker thread from lurkers and dead players.  And now I think he's holding back in response to that, or maybe because he's scum and he saw that his active self drew too much attention.  I don't know - if I was sure, I'd be calling you all idiots much more vociferously.  But its as good a theory as I have right now, so I'm voting for him.

That's the best I can do to explain an early vote based on tone reads, as opposed to my later votes, based off tone reads.  If I'm still alive in 4 days, I'll still be voting based off tone reads.  *shrug*

So Gaspar is now explaining why thrawn is scummy. WHY DID HE NEED ME TO CONVINCE HIM!?

Oh man Fuck you Gaspar.


Gaspar's commodore vote:

My very quick read of the period where I was asleep is everyone seems somewhat afraid of making a mistake except for Meiz and maybe sunrise.  That gives me a town lean on Meiz.

Some rapid fire reads:

Thrawn seems earnest and feels like a mislynch given his posting today.  I will be moving my vote.

pindicator I need a reread, but feels very lynchable at the moment.

Don't like the dolphin.  Just feels lazy.

Love Omar.  Don't love GES.

Alhambram and Jabbz probably deserve to be lynched, but I'm not for day 1 policy lynches.

Lewwyn is a day 1 policy non-lynch for me.

Rowain seems pretty low-effort so far, but I am also predisposed to not want to lynch Rowain because I know I am predisposed to think he is scum.

Kaiser I have a hard time getting a read on.  Gonna try to rectify that as well.

Going to try and avoid sunrise and novice today as well because they haven't played recently and its good to have them back and also they've been driving the bus on me and I'm trying to not let that color my perception.

Going to park my vote on Commodore for about a half-hour until I come back after a re-read on pindi, Commodore, GES and Kaiser.

Gaspar says he needs to reread again. Gaspar comes off thrawn. Gaspar says he needs to PARK HIS VOTE on commodore. Does that sound like someone who is convinced commodore is scum? It sounds like he's preparing for all the evantualities of a day 1 lynch.

He comes back with:

So thoughts...

Pindicator has contributed literally nothing.

Commodore basically has been on me all day because he didn't like some nonsense from the early part of the day.  He's also been very argumentative, while both feeling no pressure and having no town reads.  Feels scummy.

GES has also parked on me for no meaningful reason.  My guess would be that reason is he's lazy scum.  I sort of get a sense that sunrise and novice made it easy to park on me by presenting the first real case of the game and that's why I've had a lot of clingers voting for me.

I was going to go read Kaiser but he just critted me with that Roland Memorial Wall of Text™.  Might read later.

Anyway, I'm comfortable voting for any of those 3 but I'm sticking with Commodore for now.

Again being non commital and opening the door here to swap onto Pindicator if need be.

Let's get to the point where I've started to work on thrawn. Gaspar says:

I get what you're saying Lew but I just think its more likely Thrawn has retreated to his shell and doesn't know what to do because everything he's done in these games has gotten him criticism.  Surely he'd be doing better with a little guidance.  Maybe he wouldn't, but I think that will reveal itself over time.

If I were to lynch a self-pitier, it would be pindicator, but I feel like if he were scum he'd feel obliged to try harder.

Commodore OTOH - like, what has he contributed?  His post count is higher but like... he read me as scum for some nothing and then locked on it all day and only moved when he needed to find another lynch candidate?

Fake edit:  Thrawn's most recent posts just cement my opinion where he's flailing.  Pindicator's attitude today has been totally unhelpful but I think he's town.  I just think he'd help his scum buddies.  If it comes down to him vs thrawn though I'd vote pindicator because I really hate the give up bullshit.

He's reversed opinion on thrawn here even though he's suspected him. What does he mean thrawn's retreatted into his shell? He's in the thread posting more and more. Also it doesn't jibe with his earlier discussion of thrawn.

Well yes Pin, I agree that my default stance is to prioritize player strength.  But I feel pretty strongly that thrawn is just having a tough time whereas I think you're better than this.

Do I think you're scum?  No, I think you could be scum.  I think Commodore is scum.

If I had to rate the possible lynch candidates I would go Comm > pin > thrawn.

Other people I have at least in the "questionable" category: Jabbz, Rowain, GES, Adrien, Bob

Other people I don't want to lynch right now due to either meta reasons or town reads: novice, Meiz, Lewwyn

People I am strategically ignoring: sunrise, Cyneheard

Here he is suddenly sure that comm is scum even though very little has changed from his last post. thrawn is 3rd on his list even though just a moment ago he was telling me he didn't believe thrawn was scum and flailing too much to be scum.
He says pin over thrawn because of strength of player:

Well yes Pin, I agree that my default stance is to prioritize player strength.  But I feel pretty strongly that thrawn is just having a tough time whereas I think you're better than this.

I hate this.

I still hate this.



Then the kicker:

Well yes Pin, I agree that my default stance is to prioritize player strength.  But I feel pretty strongly that thrawn is just having a tough time whereas I think you're better than this.

I hate this.

Sell ME on it Lew, then.  You know me well enough to know hammering isn't going to convince me.  Where am I wrong?

It's suddenly my job to do it. I'm the one who's gotta sell everyone and be the hero and take all the blame.

Man Gaspar has been pushing my buttons all game. Day 2 he got me to dig in deeper by playing off my case on WK.


TLDR

-Gaspar shows hesitancy and woe is me my scum reads are off this game ON DAY 1

-Gaspar votes for thrawn and points out how thrawn is scummy. Defends his vote of thrawn

-Gaspar "parks" his vote on Commodore, is noncommital.

-Gaspar gets aggro about Commodore suddenly (knows comm can switch and I'm leading a successful charge on thrawn so its safe Day 1)

-Gaspar defends thrawn, then puts him as his 3rd lynch target

-Gaspar begs me to sell him on the lynch, votes pin and claims both pin and comm are scum thereby tying them together. He knows Comm is scum and that Pin is NOT goign down Day 1 and I'm going to take the blame for what he thinks is a Day 1 villager mislynch.



Day 1 reading with the knowledge we have now Gaspar is scummy as hell.

I will add i also think it's a tell that when Commodore finally puts together his defense post in #374, 30 minutes before deadline, he quotes all of his attackers EXCEPT GASPAR.

EEeeeeee *CHIRUP*?
<This sucks. Still don't understand this damn case. WHO IS BEE BOY?>

What do you think of Pindicator?

So far no real opinion. I don't like his last post

I still don't feel good about sunrise, as I think Gaspar is as Gaspar as Gaspar can be.  But that was what I said about scooter - whatever, I stand by Gaspar seeming town.

That's a bit too wishy-washy for me.  OTOH I'm inclined to give pindi a chance to hang himself later if he is scum on not on Day1.


Other topic
This

Finally, I'm not sure I ever had enough of a baseline on you folks even when I played a couple of games in a row. After a few years though, I don't even remember roughly what your playstyles are like, much less if you're operating in a particularly scummy or town manner. I may or may note be up tomorrow by deadline, as I'm up way too late tonight, but I'm comfortable leaving my vote on commodore, mainly because I'm positive based on current trends that he won't be at risk today, thus my vote wouldn't be the deciding factor.

is as scummy as it can get.

As for Gaspar, he got roped into justifying his pretty random vote on Meiz, and then his justification got picked apart. That's pretty predictable and I'm not sure it's enough to convict. If we were to tone read the tone reader I'd say he's probably town, like all of us.

Commodore is on my allowed to lynch list, and I see no reason why he can't be scum.

Who are all the people on your allowed to lynch list? I'm sure you realize your vote on Commodore is very null, why is Commodore above others on the list?

I think I'll join the pretty lady for a while (and yes Q she is a pretty lady)

Commodore

There was one point made on Commodore that I liked - that he should have been able to parse Omar's posts. Not enough effort on Commodore's part there. So I'll stay on Commodore for the time being.

I could make a shortlist and reread those people. Maybe later.

Consecutive rereading from #212 on happens now, I have seen some post while researching the later persons on my list. I started Rowain, and then from the bottom up.

Gazglum, where does pindicator draw out people like you mentioned in #83 ?
Jabbz, whom or what were you answering to in #165?
Commodore, what do you mean with Lazy Omar in #168?
Sunrise, how would you categorize the players based on your post #196 after reading my above post?

- Commodore, can anybody enlighten me why Commodore was supposed to understand GES?

My take on that is that Commodore is a smart guy who’s into roleplay, so he should make the effort to understand what his suspect is saying instead of dismissing his post as unintelligible.

Kakakakaakakaa EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeyiiiiiirchip.
<Yeah, this seems weak. Now Pindicator...>

If it's Pindicator vs Commodore...

Pindicator, but I'd rather lynch GES or even WK.

Eeee *chirp* eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee yakakakcheeeee.
<I'd rather Pindicator than me, but the case for thrawn is stronger.>

In a rush to get a post out he is only focusing on the people not on his team.

[Rowain]

How should I?

It's quite a coincidence to talk about my requirement for proving my role, while me being robbed the ability.

So you think I'm scum? I mean yeah why not thats the reason I shot a very scummy player on N2 and announced it    . I have the feeling you are preemptive attacking.

BTW we have heard nothing from Gaspar and Bob concerning their roles.

[Meiz]

How should I?

It's quite a coincidence to talk about my requirement for proving my role, while me being robbed the ability.

So you think I'm scum? I mean yeah why not thats the reason I shot a very scummy player on N2 and announced it    . I have the feeling you are preemptive attacking.

BTW we have heard nothing from Gaspar and Bob concerning their roles.

If you read my eod post you see what I've been thinking of your game. I'm very surprised you had Gaspar & novice as the next lynch steps. Why, besides the tinfoil hat for ultimate wolf plays?

[pindicator]

I've just been informed by GM that my power has been ripped off, so I will be unable to proof anything. A nice power by the villains I suspect.

What do you mean by "ripped off"? Deactivated today only or gone for good?

[Meiz]

For good.

[Jabbz]

You know what bothers me about this Meiz?

Lets assume you're a townie for a minute. (Please note I'm not saying you're scum at this point, but you know I already lean that way.) You have a role that seems more than a bit odd for a townie to have. You maybe feel a bit more confident when someone dies day one and you see they also didn't show alignment/info upon death. This means at least your ability isn't truly unique, but the likely user of the other known version of your ability was scum. When people start talking about their abilities none of them are even remotely like your own, in fact, yours even seems to go in an entirely different direction, denying information, rather than providing it, something that doesn't help town much.

Now for me, when people questioned that I'd completely understand where they were coming from. It makes sense. I know I'm not scum, but I have to accept that I'm going to get poked and prodded quite a bit. Then when I lose my ability on n3, and someone asks me about it, or notes its convenient, I'm going to completely understand it. I won't like it, especially as I'm already annoyed I lost my power, that alone makes me look more suspicious, but I'll get where the townie is coming from.

None of this appears to be how you are relating to the situation. Further there were better people to strip if that was the case. Stripping Omar would have killed two birds with one stone, I wouldn't have confirmed him, which would have led to either he or I being lynched, with the other likely lynched when the first showed blue. The same could have been done, to lesser effect by stripping Pindi. Arguments about order of operations could still be made, both in defending against the changes in info, or even against this line of thought, but all told stripping you of your powers doesn't hurt town very much, it might even save them from a headache later. You choose anyone today to kill, we don't see what the results are, and you have a very good chance of being lynched tonight.

Basically I don't see how scum gains advantage from stripping you. Sure you might get a good shot off, absolutely positive. But if you're wrong, you probably just lost town the game, whereas scum can come back from that. As a wolf, those are good odds in my book.

[Meiz]

Now for me, when people questioned that I'd completely understand where they were coming from. It makes sense. I know I'm not scum, but I have to accept that I'm going to get poked and prodded quite a bit. Then when I lose my ability on n3, and someone asks me about it, or notes its convenient, I'm going to completely understand it. I won't like it, especially as I'm already annoyed I lost my power, that alone makes me look more suspicious, but I'll get where the townie is coming from.

None of this appears to be how you are relating to the situation. Further there were better people to strip if that was the case. Stripping Omar would have killed two birds with one stone, I wouldn't have confirmed him, which would have led to either he or I being lynched, with the other likely lynched when the first showed blue. The same could have been done, to lesser effect by stripping Pindi. Arguments about order of operations could still be made, both in defending against the changes in info, or even against this line of thought, but all told stripping you of your powers doesn't hurt town very much, it might even save them from a headache later. You choose anyone today to kill, we don't see what the results are, and you have a very good chance of being lynched tonight.

Basically I don't see how scum gains advantage from stripping you. Sure you might get a good shot off, absolutely positive. But if you're wrong, you probably just lost town the game, whereas scum can come back from that. As a wolf, those are good odds in my book.

For your first part, Rowain posted before deadline. How would you react when a player claims you are required to prove your role later or get lynched, while reading a message from GM that your power has been lost?

[Rowain]

If you read my eod post you see what I've been thinking of your game. I'm very surprised you had Gaspar & novice as the next lynch steps. Why, besides the tinfoil hat for ultimate wolf plays?

Simply put There is exactly 1 WK voter left (pindi ) and I can't shake the feeling that he is town. so what do you think the wolves did D2? Assuming pindi is town you have at least 2 wolves on Commodore himself. Yopu can either believe they were the hard pushers or you believe they were the late comers. Yes I had both Gaspar and novice in my towncamp. But you can't argue with result that Lewwyn for one was a honest villager. His srtrong push for saving C was just Lewwyn being Lewwyn and sticking to his reads. I still don't understand why the town was so f*** lazy and had no interest in D3.

Meiz just assume you, me and pindi are town.
leaves

sunrise/alhambram, Gaspar, GES,Jabbz, Kaiser, Bob

Of course there are many possible theories loeft. You can say tha Jabbz, GES (with or without pindi) are a scumpair who cleared themself rather nice and so on but I rather believe they are honest .
@Kaiser whom did you visit with which result?