WW48: Melllvar's Grand Competition!

[Gaspar]

@Gaspar - can you articulate a case on me aside from end of Day 4? Specifics are helpful

Also @ Gaspar - can you talk a little more about your role or you analysis of it? You’ve clearly had plenty of time. Do you think there’s a second village bodyguard out there or your role is just solely tied to pind? Also also, what is the connection between your role and House thematically?

Basically for me, I had you firm town throughout the first 2.5 days. Primarily, your flimsy case on me and how strongly you held to it felt like the sort of thing scum would not do - like if you're scum you absolutely would have let it go. And you generally sounded reasonable and level-headed. But the fact that you've never let that case go, made sure everyone knew you never let that case go but were never willing to champion it until it didn't matter - well that is some scummy shit. Basically, you make sure you throw some shade at me so I stay lynchable but you don't want to stick your neck out for it, because sticking your neck out gets people lynched (see Fox, Weeb.) That, plus how much fence-sitting you did EOD. You ask why didn't you just jump on Meiz well, if YOU cast the deciding vote and you know he's going to flip town, then that looks awfully bad for you. Unfortunately, Meiz sniffed that out and you ended up looking scummy either way.

Re: my role - what's to analyze? Its a shitty role. When I got my role PM my reply to Brick was "I hate you." My gameplan basically was to not say anything about it until the BG was dead or I was for sure going to hang (I wasn't around the day I was on the block at the end, so I would have missed that.) I do not think there is a second bodyguard because that's awfully weird. Also, everyone has a claimed role and most of them are confirmed to some extent. I think Brick ran out of roles that aren't too powerful and he wanted to avoid the obvious by giving me a Doctor role, so he leaned into the junkie aspect with the Enabler.

[Rowain]

@Alhambram - under your ‘simple’ explanation Meiz is town and I’m wolf, right? Why wouldn’t I just vote for Meiz then?

Perhaps out of fear getting caught redhanded? And after pindicators switch you could no longer vote for Meiz. Why didn't you vote Bob is the more interesting question.

But move the Gaspar-vote aside for a moment. sunrise whom do you see as scum if we lynch Gaspar and he shows scum. And whom do you consider scum if we lynch Gaspar and he shows town.

BTW the same question (with the name of your preferred target instead of Gaspar) goes to alhambram, Jabbz, Kaiser and Omar.

And while I agree with Omar on the principle of gathering behind the surest townie I prefer Heros to do their own thinking so to make it a bit more difficult for Omar to hide:: Omar

Oh and Omar one reminder:

I do remember the wolf game from GES  where he constantly claimed to have no time  he even went so far to ask in his civ-games to not report any diplo with him so that his "time-strained- excuse " is more believable and faked a drunken post calling Ichabod Ochabid etc Wolves won that one thanks to him.  So I absolutely agree if he keeps this low-profile he should be lynched.

No drunken (or stoned) post this time

[Alhambram]

@Alhambram I do not understand the goal of your question here either, can you elaborate?

    (Yesterday, 12:15)Meiz Wrote:

       (Yesterday, 12:14)Alhambram Wrote:

           (Yesterday, 11:03)Meiz Wrote:

               (Yesterday, 10:58)Alhambram Wrote:
               There is 7 hours left before deadline. All what I ask is players to think for themselves when and how the idea that Lewwyn/Commodore/Pindicator is scum team did start because it did led to mislynching of Lewwyn.


           The answer is pretty clear to me. Lewwyn had a very heavy impact on pushing lynches away from Commodore. Pindicator had no interest in suspecting or going after Commodore. Even on Day 1 when he was a lynch candidate and Commodore was the running candidate before thrawn. I find it very suspicious that he claims he never took a look at Commodore's post, because his dolphin RP was too distracting.


       Knowing that Lewwyn is a town, why did he feel need to rehammer thrawn at day 1?


   Why Lewwyn had the need to hammer thrawn? I don't understand your question  lol


Or you are avoiding my question.

First part about players thinking for themselves, I answered in long post above.

Asking about thrawn is because I initally thought that wolves grand plan started there.

And about avoiding question, I felt strange in beginning of day 4 that Meiz said that he did only reread day 1 and 2 and concluded that Gaspar is town while he didn't yet reread day 3 yet where he did critize Gaspar.
Back then at day 4 I thought Meiz being Grandma Meiz and assumed that he was avoiding day 3 reread upon purpose and I thought that he was avoided my question upon purpose by laughing that he didn't understand me.
I did bring up thrawn subject at my post #1486. It turned out later that Meiz indeed didn't read it yet, but he did read it later and commented upon it. It was my mistake to assume that Meiz already did read my post, I was too hasty, sorry for this, Meiz my head was bit too heated at that moment.

[sunrise089]

@Gaspar - thanks for the response re: your role. I think you’re probably making it up for obvious reasons (it’s terrible; it was revealed the moment the bodyguard was eliminated; it has no ability to be further investigated via past actions) but I continue to appreciate you engaging with questions in a good-faith way.

Question for you though Gaspar - “Unfortunately, Meiz sniffed that out and you ended up looking scummy either way” - I still don’t understand really why scum sunrise wouldn’t just vote him then. Or vote him much earlier. Why does scum sunrise go Kaiser to pressure and not Meiz to pressure or even as an outright read under “that role claim and narrative is scummy?” Do you think it’s realistic as scum I’d think no one would notice that I wasn’t on either of the top two vote getters? Rowain says above it could be seen as bad town because it’s overly-defensive (that assumes one has roughly equal reads on the vote candidates which isn’t the case here, but anyways) but I still don’t see the play as scum aside from a lens of “everyone Meiz has an intuition on is scum out to get Meiz.”

[Alhambram]

@Alhambram - under your ‘simple’ explanation Meiz is town and I’m wolf, right? Why wouldn’t I just vote for Meiz then? I was clearly engaged at the end with the role claim weirdness, why not just get ‘convinced’ and vote him? Instead I pressure voted Kaiser and then when that got somewhat resolved I voted my conscience. Why is this proposed tie-break gambit on Meiz better for me than just plain joining several players voting for him outright.

Also, I’ve said I have Meiz town lean. It’s hard to emotionally divest myself from his attack on me, but I’m trying to keep perspective. I do think it at least LOOKS like setting up a mislynch to have what I assumed was a reasonably collegial discussion about my vote and then as soon as the day flips to night use that as the emotional (and bulk of the factual) case against me.

Because Pindicator already switched and you couldn't help Meiz's vote to majority. You staying upon Kaiser's tally for long do remind me of end of day 3 when you also was hanging around and sitting upon Pindicator's tally.
You could potentially have helped Lewwyn by narrowing down difference between Lewwyn/Gaspar tally by 1 and hope that someone else got encouraged by it and lynch Gaspar instead Lewwyn, but you didn't do it, why? Especially considering that you were upon Gaspar at day 1 and you posted at day 2 post #778 that Gaspar is your no.1 lynch.

[sunrise089]

@Rowain - Meiz and Alhambram if Gaspar is town, just Alhambram I think if Gaspar is scum. That doesn’t mean I want us to vote Meiz today, but if he stays on me and I hang it would have meant he’s pushed two villager mislynches and defended Gaspar dating back to D1.

I don’t know if Alhambram is really more scummy then Kaiser, Jabbz, or Omar, but it makes sense why he was so collegial early (buddying) and has now turned so fiercely on me now (it’s worth him dying if it gets a villager mislynch and who knows maybe he can still be saved by scum Day 6) and it makes a ton of sense why I wasn’t killed N1 or N3 (esp N3 where I think I was then the hardest mislynch not subject to likely protection) since given his contributions he would have had a lot of pressure after his neighbor flips town. I assume he was coached in wolf thread when to ‘activate’ as a sleeper agent of sorts and so now he’s ‘long suspected me.’

[sunrise089]

@Gaspar - if you’re town, even if you’re short on time, please at least keep in mind:

D1 I pushed you hard early as you say. You had more actions and you rose in stature some and regardless I thought and still maintain Thrawn was crazy scummy. D2 there was zero pressure on you so I went with the only viable lynch of people I suspected. D4 I voted for you as we all know. So we’re only talking about D3 here, and there was again only a small window when there was any movement on you and I was around. I guess in hindsight I should have moved from pind to you then. I did not for two reasons: as I said I also suspected pind and at that moment probably suspected him more; and 2) while I wasn’t on Lewwyn I also didn’t think he was anything like for sure town either. Lewwyn pushing you meant a real risk of saving scum Lewwyn and also lynching his preferred target, and I was too scarred to pull the trigger on that. Anyways it’s fair to say that end-Day-3 was very bad if you want, but please don’t let it be misconstrued as a longer duration period than it was.

[sunrise089]

Because Pindicator already switched and you couldn't help Meiz's vote to majority. You staying upon Kaiser's tally for long do remind me of end of day 3 when you also was hanging around and sitting upon Pindicator's tally.
You could potentially have helped Lewwyn by narrowing down difference between Lewwyn/Gaspar tally by 1 and hope that someone else got encouraged by it and lynch Gaspar instead Lewwyn, but you didn't do it, why? Especially considering that you were upon Gaspar at day 1 and you posted at day 2 post #778 that Gaspar is your no.1 lynch.

So...on D4 I had no reason to move to Meiz because pind had switched and so Meiz was safe. But on D3 I should have moved to Gaspar because someone may have switched even if he seemed safe?!?!

So what’s the non-scummy thing there bro? Just mislynching the villager?!

[sunrise089]

Seriously Rowain, Gaspar (Meiz I’m not sure is listening to me and I don’t know if others are willing to re-read): am I misconstruing Alhambram here? Because to me he’s calling me scum because not moving D3 supposedly helped Gaspar but not moving D4 didn’t help Meiz!!

[Alhambram]

@Rowain, if Sunrise turns out be scum, then GES is cleared, otherwise wolves wouldn't let chance go to pile upon Meiz.
Then between Kaiser and Jabbz it is. I need to reread them, but I have Kaiser as town lean, therefore more likely Jabbz as 2nd scum at this moment.

But if Sunrise is town, then likely Jabbz, but I need reread everthing again because normally Kaiser who is townie for me is likely 2nd but then maybe Bob might be bussed after all by 1 person, in that case GES biggest suspect for me.