WW48: Melllvar's Grand Competition!

[Rowain]

tally
4 votes: sunrise089 (Meiz, Gaspar,Alhambram, sunrise089 * )
1 votes: Gaspar ( Kaiser)
1 votes: Omar (Rowain)

no vote: Jabbz, Omar,  

History

Meiz votes sunrise089
sunrise089 votes Gaspar
Rowain votes Alhambram
Kaiser votes Gaspar
Gaspar votes sunrise089
Alhambram votes sunrise089
Rowain switches from Alhambram to Omar
sunrise089 switches from Gaspar to sunrise089 *

* I doubt he indented it but by the rules this is a valid vote

Part 2: Scum-sunrise's Weird-Ass Day 4

[Kaiser]

@Kaiser Fascinating that you would go after Gaspar voters if Gaspar is lynched and town but totally ignore that some people lynched a wolf yesterday.

Why don't you go after not-bob voters? Ah right you are one of them - the same you that spent day 2 telling me how wrong it is to lynch commodore ( another wolf).

This is again one of the posts from you which give me an itch, what exactly are you accusing me off?
Am I understanding your argument correct?
- Kaiser does intend to look into people who town lynch Gasper (theoretical case)
- Kaiser is scummy as he in contrast does not give a town lean to people voting for Bob last day
- Is there a contradiction I am missing here?

To try to answer this, I am not ignoring it, but I believe it more likely that the wolves decided to sacrifice Bob than that the wolves were to uncoordinated to lynch Meiz instead or alternatively at least take decent cover.

I am not sure I ever told you that it would be wrong to lynch Commodore on Day2. I remember stating my personal preference that for me the Commodore vote was mostly about the information as I did not want to lynch him for:
- not playing up to his standards (I cannot judge this, there were worse plays on Day1 (Alhambram, Jabbz, Bob)
- not contributing enough (Alhambram, Jabbz, Bob, Kaiser)
- not understanding GES properly (At least I had to spent way to much time to understand GES with a strong insecurity remaining about having understood all)

Can you please point me where I did that?

[Meiz]

Third, looking at GES. Waiting on his megapost, I don't see anything much to add to the Day 1 case so elegantly articulated by Gazglum. I'd try to parse his Day 2...but as of yet, there is none. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A NULL TELL, SCUM AND TOWN CAN BOTH BE BUSY. [/i]

Finally, we have all these names on me, plus Novice and Rowain. Given that's 7/15, I really can't say that everyone on me is scum, sadly. What this does mean is that scum who lynch me have great cover...which would be the town reason for Novice and Rowain to not be officially voting me yet. Unfortunately, the case for me at present is being sold as a metacase, "lynch for information" that gives two lynches for the price of one. We can afford a mislynch or two so I'm fine with biting it if it helps the village, but I am *not* so confident in Pindicator that I'm happy covering him.

So I guess I need to do individual reads and gives leans while I have the time here. I'll be freer during the interminable meetings tomorrow morning but that's a late in the day. >

Look at this guy, Jerry!  He's making a better case for lynching himself than Rowain is (who isn't actually voting for him??)

Also, what does "Waiting on his megapost" mean?  You crossposted with a giant post from the thug (don't look at me that way, Jerry, I admire the urban lifestyle!), but I don't see any indication from him that he had announced a megapost was incoming.  How would you know?  


Am I missing something here??  Is George finally losing it?!  Commodore

This is pretty interesting post from Bob, trying scum-Commodore & GES together. He later kept mentioning this connection as well.

[Rowain]

d4
8 hours
tally
6 votes: Kaiser (Bobchillingworth, Gaspar, Rowain, Meiz, GES, sunrise)
4 votes: Meiz (pindicator, Jabbz, Kaiser, Alhambram)
90 minutes
tally
4 votes: Meiz (pindicator, Jabbz, Kaiser, Alhambram)
3 votes: Kaiser (Bobchillingworth,  GES, sunrise)
3 votes: Bobchillingworth ( Meiz, Rowain,Gaspar)

40 minutes
tally
4 votes: Meiz (pindicator, Jabbz, Kaiser, Alhambram)
4 votes: Bobchillingworth ( Meiz, Rowain,Gaspar,GES)
2 votes: Kaiser (Bobchillingworth, sunrise)
end
tally
5 votes: Bobchillingworth ( Meiz, Rowain,Gaspar,GES,pindicator)
3 votes: Meiz (Jabbz, Kaiser, Alhambram)
1 votes: Kaiser (Bobchillingworth)
1 vote: Gaspar (sunrise)

[Rowain]

- Kaiser does intend to look into people who town lynch Gasper (theoretical case)
- Kaiser is scummy as he in contrast does not give a town lean to people voting for Bob last day
- Is there a contradiction I am missing here?

to shorten it for you
What you say is:
people lynching town are scummy
people lynching wolf are scummy

Are there any people not scummy? well you have sunrise as town so apparently sitting on the sideline while others do the lynching is towny. Best example: Bob

[Rowain]

This is pretty interesting post from Bob, trying scum-Commodore & GES together. He later kept mentioning this connection as well.

There are several things that are interesting connections between people in this game.
a) You and Gaspar have defended each other several times
b) You and Gaspar have been on the same target each and every day

You 2 voted hand in hand: town pindi, scum commodore, town Lewwyn, scum Bob with the exception of day 1 it was also always letal for your target. I hope you break the circle else we are going to lose.

[Rowain]

24 hours in the day and silence. Jabbz and GES 1 post each and no vote.

[Alhambram]

Hello here I am again and I have to apologize because this post is going be last of day 5.

Why? Because I am feeling not good RL, feel very tired and bit ill, also I need sleep right now. If I decide to stay here for hours till night, it is going to affect my health and I need go to work tomorrow.
I understands that this is critical moment for town but if I had to choose between WW game and my job/health, I choose latter.

Now things related with WW.

For people who thinks that Bob is bussed, explain why you think that it is the case here and what do wolves gain with bussing Bob.
That is because revealing Bob gives town a lot information, I believe that wolves rather have saved Bob instead bussing him.

And for me and Sunrise case: either Sunrise is scum or I am misguided once again and both of us are townie. In latter case I am sorry for pushing Sunrise hard yesterday.
That is why in case if both of us are townie either Sunrise or I got hanged and flipped townie, no you shouldn't automatically assume that other is scum because other neighbor flipped townie for easy lynch at lylo day.
If townie Sunrise and I move to lylo day after mislynch today, wolves naturally suggest that one of us has to be wolf and if everyone thinks that, then it is over for town, hence me pushing for neighbor case now with one mislynch left.

And this sounds weird but if Meiz need to shoot someone for information today, I volunteer to be shot.

Tomorrow I hope to go to job, if it is case then I won't be back till hour after deadline, another long day tomorrow. I know that is inconvenient, but I am really sorry for this.

[Rowain]

Sorry to hear that. Stay away from WW and get well soon

[sunrise089]

Checking back in with a small window to do some more discussion.

Also Meiz, why is my townread of you binding when your scum read of pindicator DURING DAY 4 was so non-binding that you stated during N4 that I am scummy for my pindicator vote?

Pindicator had no reason to switch from me to Bob if he was scum. Therefore I realized he was probably town afterall.

Sunrise had no reason to vote Commodore early when a Gaspar vote would have made perfect sense. Therefore I realized...he bussed Commodore! Because only Meiz's targets are never bussed. 

sunrise you claim that your Commodore vote is a sign for your towniness but at the same time you ignore Gaspars stance vs commodore from day 1 and day2. You even say because he switched in the last few moments from day 1 from Comm to pindi as a 0 point. IMO this is a very lopsided view. If you take your Commodore vote as a townsign you can't at the same time claim that Gapars stance for Commodore was bussing and faulty.
Either it counts as town for both or as bussing for both.

To note everyone still in the game has voted Commodore on day 2.

Sorry Rowain, I was trying to be cute here and I fear I missed the mark. My main point was just to say to Meiz that I wasn't bound by my earlier townread of him, I could change that based on new information. I tried to compare that to Meiz himself changing his opinion on pindicator during D4 as an example of a town/scum read shifting. Meiz's response, the "Pindicator had no reason to switch...," emphasized that specific event as a big town tell for Meiz. My response was in the third person from Meiz's point of view; "Sunrise had no reason to vote..." was just trying to draw a parallel for Meiz that if he found pind's move towny my move could be seen similarly. The "therefore I realized" part is me being silly - in the original Meiz 'realizes' pind is town, but I'm saying in my parallel that similar evidence just makes Meiz still see me as scum. In other words to my eyes Meiz is making the evidence fit his theory and not the theory fit the evidence. So to be extra clear I was not saying "he bussed Commodore" with HE=Gaspar, but rather HE=sunrise, from Meiz's perspective.
With respect to Garpar more generally, I agree in part and disagree in part. I'm not ignoring Gaspar's stance on Commodore D1, or at least I'm not trying to. My point tally exercise was a quick and dirty way to show that BROADLY I have been in the upper tiers of voting scum and not voting town, the exercise by definition lacks nuance. I don't give Gaspar a lot of credit for voting a villager D1, but yes its fair to weight the timing on that vote in an assessment, I apologize if I gave the impression I thought otherwise.