October 23rd, 2020, 19:37
(This post was last modified: October 23rd, 2020, 19:39 by T-hawk.)
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The thread is for everyone; my participation in it is from my viewpoint. I welcome opposing opinions and will respond with my own.
I want to target TDS points, not people per se. Jowy's post a while back was a list of many of the major ones, which I refuted. In particular the actual lies, like "Trump said drink bleach" and "Trump won't condemn white supremacists", which are outright fabrications by the media and the left. The charitable interpretation is to not assume that Jowy or anyone else who pushes those points is intentionally lying, just underinformed and unaware of anything outside the one-sided media they see. TDS is not literal mental illness, but it says something that you seem to think I think it is.
There are also points that aren't TDS, but differences of opinion, like immigration, or reopening our lives versus cowering in virus fear forever. I can show there are rational reasons for the conservative positions on those as well.
October 23rd, 2020, 19:41
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(October 23rd, 2020, 19:37)T-hawk Wrote: TDS is not literal mental illness, but it says something that you seem to think I think it is.
What does it say? Inform me.
October 23rd, 2020, 19:46
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It says to me that you're looking to discredit the opinions of people who use TDS as a concept, by trying to set up a false equivalency between it and mental illness that is not true.
October 23rd, 2020, 19:47
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I think by using the language 'deprogramming' there's definitely an aspect here where you think people have been brainwashed, and you need to 'cure' them of their illness or 'misinformation'. Especially when it comes right after this generalized statement about 'the left' as some kind of boogeyman that slanders people as racists or xenophobes (a statement that, itself, feels like its own kind of programming).
October 23rd, 2020, 19:57
(This post was last modified: October 23rd, 2020, 19:58 by Borsche.)
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(October 23rd, 2020, 19:46)T-hawk Wrote: It says to me that you're looking to discredit the opinions of people who use TDS as a concept, by trying to set up a false equivalency between it and mental illness that is not true.
Absolutely not. I think people can be whipped into an anti-Trump frenzy, to the point that they ignore either more important policy decisions that he has made, or systemic issues in government. But I think that deprogramming is misguided on two levels:
1. Anyone that would have 'derangment' as a qualfiier wouldn't change their mind, and when presented with any sort of argument or facts, often would actually become more steadfast in their belief. This same thing has been seen with anti-vaxxers in the past. Even correcting things like 'drinking bleach' or the border camps or whatever else... it only addresses the 'in the moment' event, and doesn't address the mindset. They just move onto the next thing, or a previous thing, or just the guy himself etc. It doesn't address the addiction to news media, how the top story for a news cycle is chosen, systemic distraction from actual policy etc.
2. I don't think anyone on here has Trump Derangement Syndrome, so I don't think anyone on here is in need of deprogramming.
October 23rd, 2020, 20:50
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You can quibble with the terms deprogramming or TDS, sure, but we're talking semantics. People hold anti-Trump opinons for hysterical and irrational reasons and that's what I'm moving against, whatever you want to call that effort.
Is the rest of the argument that people will never give up anti-Trump hysteria so I shouldn't even try?
October 23rd, 2020, 21:03
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(October 23rd, 2020, 20:50)T-hawk Wrote: You can quibble with the terms deprogramming or TDS, sure, but we're talking semantics. People hold anti-Trump opinons for hysterical and irrational reasons and that's what I'm moving against, whatever you want to call that effort.
Is the rest of the argument that people will never give up anti-Trump hysteria so I shouldn't even try?
Who, on this forum, are you deprogramming?
October 23rd, 2020, 23:00
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Anyone who holds anti-Trump opinions based on bad reasons like wrong facts, irrelevant or misguided perceptions (like the $750 tax thing that is exactly how taxes work legally but is somehow a reason to hate him), or simply never having heard any other side.
Why are you challenging my participation and not that of those who are misinformed?
October 23rd, 2020, 23:31
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Hi, I'd just like to mention that T-Hawk refuted nothing. I chose not to continue the conversation as to not get banned after being warned. It's not worth it, I'd rather play Civ 
If anyone was swayed by what T-Hawk said, I would recommend further looking into the topics by yourself, or just watching the Trump Town Hall and the 2nd debate where many of the things come up again.
"Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) is a pejorative term for criticism or negative reactions to United States President Donald Trump that are perceived to be irrational, and have little regard towards Trump's actual policy positions, or actions undertaken by his administration.[2] The term has mainly been used by Trump supporters to discredit criticism of his actions, as a way of reframing the discussion by suggesting that his opponents are incapable of accurately perceiving the world."
October 24th, 2020, 00:12
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But I did refute your points and you did fail to accurately perceive the world. Trump did not say anything about drinking bleach, Biden completely made that up, the media quoted him, and I linked a source for that fact. You're proving Borsche's point about how people just ignore counterarguments and facts.
Of course I'd encourage looking into the topics by yourself - but be aware that you may just as well find echo-bubble misinformation rather than actual truth.
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