[Game Thread] WW49: Wizards and Werewolves

[Serdoa]

Just play the game. As in, read the thread form where you last left off, post if something seems odd when you read it, then keep reading were you left off. Don't jump back and forth if you don't want to make an elaborate case. And don't try that on D1, tbh, that is a futile attempt. Or to sort all posts - I did try in WW46 to connect all posts, each mentioning someone made of someone else, what they said, when, in which context... you get frustrated without getting anywhere. 

If you feel I'm an asshole for fighting with Adrien, vote me for that exact reason. Then we can discuss how you mean it, if it is my tone, my words, contradictions you see. But don't try to solve the game on D1... everyone of us is happy when we can do that on the last day of the game, when it is all or nothing and only 3 players are left... and even then we fail sometimes

[novice]

Do you have any experience playing as scum, thrawn? How does that tend to go?

[Tarkeel]

@Tarkeel, what about the Barbarian?

I was about to say how Thrawn seems the type to post whatever pops into his head - which got him a lot of heat in WW47.  However, I remembered the replacement request in 46 and how he felt overwhelmed before even really digging into that game.  I would definitely suspect that is what is happening here with thrawn and if I had to pick a side for him today I would say he is villager and feeling overwhelmed again.

(Which side note, if it really is the case, I feel bad for.  Thrawn, if that's what is going on and you read this then don't worry how you do, just play.  You had a lot of fun in 47, and I hope you can have fun here again.  It's tough not having all the answers as town, and toughest the first days when you really feel the most lost.  But it's like a long journey, you take just one small step at a time.  And that's what makes it fun in the end too.  Anyway, I hope you are having fun.)

The barbarian (and rogue) seems to be confrontational, and that player-lean is not something I can quantify. I fear that your take on Thrawn is correct, and is part of why my vote on him is rather reluctant.

Not the game, I love playing offline but all the reading and jumping back and forth does my head in. Thought the smaller game would be better but not really...

Would you care for a sip from my cauldron, kick of those slippers and just go with the flow? Your latest posts have convinced me that we have more promising targets...

Tarkeel, feel free to elaborate what you think about my thoughts. Especially about pindicator, our Cleric. The same goes for everyone else of course. I didn't write that post just to have everyone skim it and just make a mental checkmark besides my name... At least look at the pindicator part, after all I moved my vote because I think he deserved it for that one game-related post he made.

Short-form summary:

• Ranger: Agreed
  
• Cleric: It was kind of hard to distill this into thoughts, but it looks equal part suspicious and helpful. I was hoping to see more of his opinions.
  
• Druid: I think you missed my argument for the Warlock @223. Also, I prefer to stir my cauldron, not intrigue.
  
• Warlock: Agreed that it has been mainly contributing posts, not content.
  
• Monk: Your initial arguments were sound and contributed to me being open to lynching the monk earlier.
  
• Sorcerer: If nothing else, he has been a very good smoke-screen and "easy" lynch.
  
• Wizard: Agreed.
  

[pindicator]

@Serdoa, sorry I had to go back and see what post you made. You're right that I'm ducking in and out. What I'm doing is skimming when I pop onto the forum from my phone and then when I did my big post yesterday that was after an hour solid of reading and taking notes. Which I need to do again but am loathe to because it feels more like work than play. There's a still large gap that I haven't really read yet from about 120 until when I started posting here again this morning (my time morning).

Pindicator alias Cleric

3 posts in total, like DS. But pindi is around, the posts happened on different days, so it feels more like deliberately choosing not to engage more. Anyhow, of those 3 posts only the last does offer thoughts on the game. Looking at those

a) Lewwyn looks kinda townie for offering his power, but not for the intention but for his tone. If he was a munchkin pindi would expect him to be more cunning with it and less excited to give the power away.
-> I don't understand this. Is it townie for his tone or is it for his intention? The first sentence of pindis statement is clearly about the tone, but the next as clearly about the intention.

My thinking on the intention portion mirrored what i was reading from the group at large. That at first it was townie, but then upon further reflection could be a cunning ploy as scum so we should give it neutral tone. However, I feel that the delivery from Lewwyn's end would be different if he was scum. I'd expect that if this was a cunning scum ploy there would be more eagerness to get where he was going to, if that makes sense. With how he tossed it out there today it just felt more honest in tone to me. So I give townie points for tone and neutral for the intention.

b) He follows that with stating that he often agrees with what Lewwyn writes, for example in case of DS.
-> I miss further examples where he agreed with Lewwyn. Together with his starting statement this feels more like buddying up to Lewwyn for the sake of it.

I'm a little worried about this myself! I don't remember being so alike in thinking with Lewwyn in the past but here it is the third game in a row where I find myself voting for the same person as Lewwyn. I haven't read Lewwyn's attacks on Rowains close enough to know if he's seeing the same thing as I am. At this point I think that makes me feel more townie on him, that we've been this in sync over the last couple games and still seem to be here. If you recall I got heat for buddying up with Lewwyn in 48 also, so I know that is only something that will help me with a town read on Lewwyn.

c) He questions DS about his vote change and exclaims that if DS really didn't want to pile on with the starting vote, he could have much earlier moved away from Rowain.
-> It's funny, that is one of those things you read and you nod, till you go back and check time-stamps and posts numbers and realize that we talk about DS making a vote at 18:00 and changing it at 18:53 after 12 more posts happened. One of those posts was another vote for Rowain, by novice admittely. But pindi made posts #60 and #82, clearly quite some time after DS had made his post #4 and #17, without mentioning DS. Only in #150 he starts questioning it. Talk about going for low-hanging fruits...

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. I think there's some merit to suspecting DS for his vote away from Rowain. What caught my attention more when I read everything through (again, that's what I did before the big post) was that DS and AdrienIer did their crosspost opening vote on Rowain. DS did not vote off of Rowain until after a third person joined (Novice, I think - I'm just going off memory here so details may not be 100% accurate). And yet when asked about it the reasoning he gave was that he had cross-posted with AdrienIer on his opening vote. But that did not seem honest to me, as DS had plenty of time to mention it then. It just wasn't until after more people voted that he got cold feet and then gave a reasoning that he cross-posted with AdrienIer.

d) WK gets scum-points for suspecting thrawn even though he should know better as he played with him in 47 (and 48?).
-> I don't like that whole thrawn-argument going around about having to know something because of an earlier game-performance. Especially if then others state that in one of the games he was a baddie (or could have been one?) ... anyhow, it seems thrawn has a hard time finding his footing in these games no matter his alignment if I gathered it correctly.

I do not give you scum points for thrawn for the reason that if you did not follow 47 closely then you really didn't get to see his posting style. But Warriorknight was in that game and did see Thrawn. I really should double check what his suspicions were for him in that game too. (For instance: If WK did not suspect thrawn in 47 but suspects thrawn here then I give major major scum points to him. But lots of people were on thrawn in 47.)

As for earlier game performances in general, isnt' that part of first day tone reading? You have a baseline for someone that you have developed from interacting with them before and then you see how they differ.

e) He mentions finding Gazglum odd because Gaz urged novice to not hurry Lewwyn into giving him his power while pindi thinks that novice didn't do so but only accepted what was offered.
-> That is not entirely correct. First Lewwyn stated  (kinda) that he can bestow a power upon someone. Re-reading it, he stated

"My songs reverberate with power,
though be not afraid I will inspire
among you one upon the midnight hour
to sing with me from wire-to-wire!

So audition friend, if you'd do better.
Your reward, your vote shall be greater!"

Lewwyn did that after novice scolded him for his bad rhymes. Funnily enough he did so one post after he told me that rhyming is only for him...

Later they discussed what Lewwyn meant, in #58 Lewwyn explained how it works and in #59 novice volunteered to take the power. Looking that through I find Gazglums comment not odd. I can see how Lewwyns first rhyme is seen as an offer, but that doesn't change the fact that novice jumps immediately at it after Lew explains in more detail what even is offered. novice also explains that he forgot to request clarification from Lew earlier, so that he just took Lewwyns offer up is only true if you ignore that there have been several hours between these exchanges.

I guess I disagree here. I find the fact that Lewwyn offered first is paramount: if Novice came clamouring for the power then I would see Gazglum's point. But if Lewwyn had asked me instead? I probably would have agreed too. Actually, I've kind of wanted to ask just to get the post restriction - it looks fun. Though I'm not exactly as time committed to this game as some right now, and I'm afraid it would be wasted on me. It would be fun though to have to speak in verse and think up rhymes like that - Lewwyn is doing a bang up job.

In addition, I think novice has shown himself as the most townie in this first day and Lewwyn offering his power up to him resonates with me.

On a side note, I suppose if there is honest concern that novice and Lewwyn have all prepared this as some kind of scheme then Lewwyn can give his power to someone else. It will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. But I don't doubt the role and PR - it's too easy to have someone confirm it.

f) Voting for Rowain because Rowain sounded to carefree before he attacked me and also that his defense of thrawn ignores differences between his performances in WW47 and 48.
-> The first part I don't understand at all. Rowain sounded to carefree - as in he had too much fun at the start of the game? The second part though makes even less sense. In the same post in which he attacks WK for suspecting thrawn (point d of this overview), he also suspects Rowain for defending him, but not doing it correctly?

My impression of Rowain the last few games is that he starts very guarded and reserved and then delves into cases on people. He's not a driver, he does his work from the sidelines. Which is fine. Later days he starts to come alive more. But here he seemed more in the forefront and a lot more energized - in tone as well as in fighting with Lewwyn (which I haven't done more than skim so I'm not sure on the details there) and accuse you for your vote on Thrawn. The tone part reminded me a bit of how Meiz caught initial suspicion on me as the SK in 46 for being too carefree at first.

As far as Rowain-regarding-thrawn, it's more that Thrawn is such an easy person to attack that as scum he also is an easy person to defend. Or rather, to attack the attackers because he usually draws a lot of heat as town. Let me try explaining it another way: he attacked your vote as being "un-Serdoa" and then just digging in to that and sticking with it, well to me that seems very un-Rowain.

And the difference in thrawn in 47 and 48 was that he was town in 47 and a traitor in 48. There were obviously differences to him which Lewwyn and I (there we go again) jumped on.

[Commodore]

Tally as of 11:39 CDT 10/26/2020:

Lynch votes
5 votes: Thrawn (WarriorKnight, superdeath, AdrienIer, Gazglum)
2 votes: Dark Savant (novice, Lewwyn)
1 votes: Superdeath (Tarkeel)
1 votes: Rowain (pindicator)
1 votes: AdrienIer (Dark Savant)
1 votes: Novice (Rowain)
1 votes: Pindicator (Serdoa)

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[AdrienIer]

Dark Savant

Not happy with that vote

[pindicator]

Not the game, I love playing offline but all the reading and jumping back and forth does my head in. Thought the smaller game would be better but not really...

Yeah, I hear that.

I'm really sorry this isn't fun

Maybe just nibbling at the edges? Focusing on a couple players and seeing if you agree with them or not, suspect them or not - then moving on from there?

[novice]

Tarkeel what’s your case on Superdeath?

[novice]

My apologies then good warlock, I took your tone as accusatory and not just merely pushing. Consider my own vote on yourself as a push then, as yourself has not been very participating so far.

Have you decided the warlock is chaste?
What is your thought of who next to baste?

The warlock has yet to provide any meaningful content, so my decision is still pending, but any of my list of five might still go. The ranger is still missing, the cleric is hiding and the sourcerer is still bumbling. I am at a loss of what to make of the scuffle between our rogue and monk, but from my tree it looks like a bad case of green-on-green miscommunication.

Dear warlock Momonga,
The thoughts you have offered up have been sorely based on class-ist assumptions, yet you casually flinging accusations of skating by on others who have brought more to the discussion. For some reason you think of myself as a healer, but seem to forget that druids also have other strengths. You also seem awfully preoccupied with distributing the loot before it has even dropped. That for me is the mark of a munchkin.

Never mind, found it.

[Serdoa]

I looked into what thrawn posted in WW47 and 48 (it is kinda hard when you first have to find out that his account there was Q, not thrawn). You have been able to be much more "clear" in what you post. Yes, short and sometimes skimming it seems, but still on the game. None of that I'm seeing here. Here it feels I have to take pity on you - and I was already doing so. But after reading that, I think while you might feel overwhelmed from the game, it is far from so overwhelming that you should be not able to contribute at all when you could in 47 and 48 (especially 48).

Of course I only skimmed those threads now, but I have to conclude, you can follow games, you can do what I recommended, you even did so before in games. You just didn't here - I don't think my vote makes a difference now but anyhow

thrawn