[Game Thread] WW49: Wizards and Werewolves

[Rowain]

Oh, I see the lynch pindicator tomorrow train is starting early.

I was about to vote for Lewwyn myself.  I can understand a disappearance into RP for day 1.  But day 2 he's given nothing.  And I do not like that he isn't waffling on me this game.

Do you think he is trying to buddy up with you?

[Lewwyn]

I stayed on Thrawn because of two reasons, 1: He failed to mention anything that wasnt "what should i be" or other nonsense and i wanted him to post something of substance 2: I went to bed and was at work when he showed up at the end.

I, the great warlock of Yggdrasil do not see any reason other than deception for the glorious game-maker to give anyone the ability to make Serdoa have this talking restriction. I believe it is a classic rogue trick to avoid suspicion and protect himself from being kicked out this round.


Who would be granted such an ability? While i believe it is a ruse, my best guesses would be the  Monk   making someone else only able to "meditate"/vote OR Rowain the barbarian, perhaps with some sort of "rage/anger blinds you/cant talk"?

If Serdoa has this posting restriction, someone doesnt want him using the scroll that easily to bring back someone from the dead to give us wisdom. That is my best guess

You think it is a ruse by Serdoa, but you’re voting Adrien for being behind it anyway?

Meant to say "would look like something Rogue-Like" As in, if you were to use a power of deception/control like a posting restriction, the rogue would be the perfect target imo. While i do doubt that Serdoa would do that to himself ( although it would be the 500 IQ play of the century ) The 2 mentioned players are the only ones where i could feasibly see having a power that fits this problem. Of the two, the Monk seems the easier fit as Meditating is rather quiet and a full no-voting power would be WAY too OP for this game. Unless this is the magical power of the Grognard?

Its difficult to understand this man's mind
I do not think he's is completely sane.
his wild theories are one of a kind
and I can not tell what's in his brain.

This doesn't read as either town or scum
It doesn't seem that different from last game.
I am loathe to simply let him pass
And think he might still share some blame.

The adrien vote is rather curious
It seems a vote based on role
and there is no other reason why
I think he may still be our goal.

All that said I see
Serdoa's glee:

What exactly do you mean with all that? First it sounds like you think I came up with it myself. But then you indicate you believe someone has the ability and used it on me. And then you vote for Adrien, without even knowing if he has the ability or at least questioning him about it? There are imo good reasons to vote Adrien, but not that. Especially as I have to add, we know that abilities were rolled before alignment, so it doesn't tell anything what ability someone has. Even if someone came forward to claim he used it on me would not be in itself damning. I'm actually surprised that still no one asked that simple question "Who silenced Serdoa and why?". I actually thought it was you SD.

You explain it after being questioned by novice, but that explanation still doesn't answer that for me, as your post clearly states that you believe it is to "protect himself from being kicked out this round". If you meant to say someone wanted to protect me, this 'himself' there is not making sense. Basically: I don't believe you. I think you either changed your mind halfway through writing your post OR you asked others what they think and they told you that an attack on me over this would make no sense, so you changed your post but left that part by accident in. And the only way to ask others is if you are a wolf-munchkin

Look I agree SD is crazy
but to think that a scum buddy
helped him is crazy

I think what ever happened in SD's mind
is his alone for mistakes of this order
would other scum find.

In fact I have a different opinion
that this was his intent
to obfuscate and leave us wondering
what he goddamn actually meant.

[Lewwyn]

I, the great warlock of Yggdrasil do not see any reason other than deception for the glorious game-maker to give anyone the ability to make Serdoa have this talking restriction. I believe it is a classic rogue trick to avoid suspicion and protect himself from being kicked out this round.

Who would be granted such an ability? While i believe it is a ruse, my best guesses would be the  Monk   making someone else only able to "meditate"/vote OR Rowain the barbarian, perhaps with some sort of "rage/anger blinds you/cant talk"?

If Serdoa has this posting restriction, someone doesnt want him using the scroll that easily to bring back someone from the dead to give us wisdom. That is my best guess

A skeleton skims
Can’t read for tells and tone
Wild leaps of logic

Does this poem stand to mean
that you think SD is sumo or not?
Are you saying that you cannot read him
and is not to be forgot?

I would my dear ser glum
elaboration would like you from.

[Lewwyn]

Novice and Lewwyn
Like the blossom and the bee
Sing, vote, gift, as one

You're not far off
it has been true
we've voted together
more than you.

But I point out that now you and I
Are joined in song that multiplies.

Thoughts on some players:

Gazglum: Saying that the Rowain/Novice show must be resolved today is an interesting stance. It's not like we have a lot of mislynches to waste, are you so sure one of us is scum?

Forgive me Sers, if response be yet slow 
My brain, song-sodden, outruns my heavy tongue 
Sure and certain? If only I could know
But Fighter, Rogue and Barb gave pause Day 1

Sweet-tempered Rowain met query with spite 
Ready was I to offer him my blade 
Still today would I think that justice mete 
But my doubt-gnawed heart beats yet afraid

Novice, so quick, you begged the bardic gift
While Lewwyn dogged your step, your vote, your thought
Both as one offered death to Ser de Glum
That poisoned cup, though withdrawn, chills me yet

The Fighter and The Bard, dark twins in blood? 
Any such double conjunction rare 
Novice, could Lewwyn play your lover sweet? 
Lewwyn, I put the opposite conceit.

To begin I point back to Day 1
where this love seems to have begun

I charged rowain first it is true
then novice came to my rescue.

He explained the ways rowain was out line
but did not vote for him at that time.

In the end I voted with him on DS
but I stand by that vote since the lynch was a mess.

During the night, novice voted to give the item to you
And his reasoning was funny,
I did not think the value huge nor particularly poisoned,
you overreact a bit there sonny.

Following novice onto superdeath did not seem like a risk
as I said we lynch him if he disobeys
though now I see the benefit in
possibly lynching him today.

Would I have voted for Superdeath if he had got the item?
probably not I think though over time my mind has changed
and maybe I would still have tried to fight him.

Today novice and I have not voted the same
he's lost his singerly voice
and I think there's more of a game
Though i liked his choice
of rowain.


I see more posts have come in since I began
so give me still some time to get understand.

[pindicator]

If DS is scum his absence is a huge problem for them IMO. They're hoping for him to come back in time to avoid the modkill (so D3 at the latest), and might lose one of their own without being able to do anything about it. They can always bus him if one of them gets in danger of being lynched but it's a dangerous thing to try because it's a bit of an obvious (yet not easy to pull off) move, and DS flipping scum doesn't absolve any of his voters.
So basically a lose-lose situation for them.

See, I was just pondering this while walking the dog. 

Early on he hits Dark Savant for switching his vote off Rowain so quickly:

Fair enough.  You understand that I need to apply pressure to everyone, especially to those of us who may soon be affected by Sleep enchantments.

I didn't intend this level of pressure, however.

We are but an hour in and the votes are still quite fresh,
but you seem so eager to jump from a wave about to crest.
Why so soon before the pressure's due?
There's a whole day yet left to rue!
Do you truly think the barbarian might
would wilt so quickly before this swiftly ended fight?

Then votes for him in #61

Later switches to Rowain in #127 as the very public argument between them went.  Full disclosure: i never did a close read on this part, only have skimmed it.  But I thought #138 stood out to me when he talks about thrawn:

This time may indeed be different
but a vote cast for thrawn
does not mean not innocent.
Easy is not always wrong.

I do not like your broad broad stroke here,
I agree that voting thrawn may be easy.
And there maybe scum among the tier
But that alone is not enough Mr. beefy.

So agreeing with Rowain that there may be scum attacking thrawn while attacking Rowain for doing precisely that?  While possible, I would expect more elaboration.  (And dammit, maybe some prose too?)  What makes Rowain more suspicious for attacking thrawn voters than other people?  If there are scum possibly among the thrawn voters why do we not hear Lewwyn puzzle this out later?  Lewwyn would very much puzzle out something like that.  Keeping it hidden and narrow here is very un-Lewwyn, if I might borrow a Rowain-ism.

There's some back-and-forth with AdrienIer later but no votes.  Until we get this post later in day 1 where Lewwyn agrees with AdrienIer on Dark Savant:

Dark Savant is my number two
If no one agrees on Rowain,
I might vote with you.

He adds suspicion of thrawn later on in #191

By the way rowain here's more fuel for your fire
I am suspicious of thrawn who's posts don't inspire.

He appeared for a moment today,
then disappeared before he had anything to say.

Then by the near end of day 1 his position has evolved (I won't say changed, because the time lapse certainly could play a part):

I’m surprised that Thrawn and DS have not appeared,
I thought for sure they would come back and talk.
Now I wonder if they are more innocent than I thought
I don’t know if scum team would’ve let them just walk!

A vote for them now is more of a policy lynch
And it’s something from which I might flinch.
I understand the need, since they could be hiding
But I wonder if they have a reason for the time they are biding.

Then the vote on Dark Savant at the very end of the day when Thrawn was in the lead:

I’m not getting traction on Rowain
But if more came, I’d go back again.

If people really want a policy lynch
Why not DS over thrawn?
We have time before our launch
I think DS has been more wrong.

He has less posts, but he’s made a vote.
He disappeared when called out.
I think he’s more likely scum of the two.
I’d vote for Dark Savant as a munchinkin lout.

So I can understand the waffling back and forth on Thrawn's disappearance.  What I don't understand is why the empathy for thrawn and yet not Dark Savant? 

All this to get at what I was puzzling this morning on the walk:  what if Dark Savant is scum, got flustered at the quick heat for the early switch off Rowain, and then disappeared.  Scum buddies would try to coax him in the wolf thread but say he doesn't show up again, say he's as flustered as thrawn (we are rather merciless on new players).  Fearing that scum is going to want to make lemonade as best they can and so will keep him as suspicious.  And then finally, when it's near the end of the day and he does not show up then it's a great time to place a safe vote on him.  It's safe whether he gets lynched or not, really.


Now do note this is all speculation on IF Dark Savant turns up scum. However I think it likely that he disappeared from heat and what makes sense to me is a newbie scum getting caught early, getting flustered and then packing it in. Could be he turns town, but sadly the only thing I feel certain of is that he is getting mod killed at the end of the day/night/whenver it was that Comm said he'd get mod killed at.

TL;DR - if Dark Savant turns up scum, then Lewwyn's day 1 looks very scummy to me.

Fake Edit: lots of cross-posts with some questions to me, will address those next post.

[pindicator]

Also, I feel ashamed that i haven't praised Gazglum yet for his verse. It's a joy to read, Gazglum.

[Lewwyn]

@Ser Glum the poet & others

What is your opinion regarding the DS-modkill? Something scum wants to happen or to avoid?

If he is scum would they wanted to lynch him on Day 1 or save him? Same if he is town.

Rowain your question is to me a bit strange
I do not think this is something town would arrange
Maybe you are looking for content here?
But I would like your reason to be clear.

The reason that I say this,
is until DS returns or is modkilled
we should avoid wasting votes
on someone unfullfilled

I don't think it matters either way
because we have to hunt scum today.

If DS is scum his absence is a huge problem for them IMO. They're hoping for him to come back in time to avoid the modkill (so D3 at the latest), and might lose one of their own without being able to do anything about it. They can always bus him if one of them gets in danger of being lynched but it's a dangerous thing to try because it's a bit of an obvious (yet not easy to pull off) move, and DS flipping scum doesn't absolve any of his voters.
So basically a lose-lose situation for them.

If DS is town it's a win-win situation because they win a kill on D3 or get to lynch him (a townie) at some point if town is going for it. I'm quite sure there were wolves on both sides of the vote if he's town, because there was no incentive to go all in on something as small as that.

This response I understand,
but it illustrates the problem with rowain's demand

This answer shows the prespective of scum but doesn't help the town
there isn't any clue here in telling which way is up or down

Whether DS is town or scum
seems out of our hand
we should simply wait
for him to die or return to our band.

[pindicator]

First, I see Lewwyn's post now saying he's not feeling well. I hope you do feel better soon, game or no game.

Oh, I see the lynch pindicator tomorrow train is starting early.

I was about to vote for Lewwyn myself.  I can understand a disappearance into RP for day 1.  But day 2 he's given nothing.  And I do not like that he isn't waffling on me this game.

Do you think he is trying to buddy up with you?

It's more that whenever I would vote and agree with him in the previous games he would get suspicious of it. Yet last night he praised me as town for thinking like him. I had said something similar for my early day 1 town read on him, and I could not think of where I had publicly been in agreement with him except on attacking you, Rowain.

When I asked him about it today he said that we also voted on Dark Savant together. And yes, I did vote on Dark Savant. But I never was pushing a case on him at the end. I was defending Thrawn (and getting angry at Serdoa). My vote for Dark Savant was only to try and save Thrawn - I know I didn't post as much in the thread, but I think that's kind of obvious from what I was saying before the vote. So no, I don't think we had any public agreement on Dark Savant that would make him think that i was towny.

Yet in 46 and 47 when I've joined him on targets I have seen Lewwyn waffle on whether I'm town. He's gotten a bit paranoid and asks himself whether or not I really am town with him or am scum trying to buddy up to him. Here I don't see that paranoia. I don't see a lot of elaboration on what makes me town, either. And that makes me paranoid of him.

[Rowain]

@Lewwyn it is a question going back to novice post about a modkill bad for scum and my answer to it.

here

[novice]

I took this as clarifying his first post to mean that someone would do a PR like this to Serdoa specifically because people could then wonder about him faking it because he was a rogue.  My first reading of Superdeath's post was like yours: that it sounded like he was saying someone did it to Serdoa and Serdoa was faking it, which made no sense.  This second post clarifies Superdeath's stance.

Although that is an interpretation that is at least internally consistent, I think you had to fill in pretty large gaps in what he posted to reach that clarification. Wouldn't you want to check with Superdeath that your interpretation is correct, instead of simply thanking him for the clarification?