[Game Thread] WW49: Wizards and Werewolves

[Lewwyn]

So I can understand the waffling back and forth on Thrawn's disappearance.  What I don't understand is why the empathy for thrawn and yet not Dark Savant? 

All this to get at what I was puzzling this morning on the walk:  what if Dark Savant is scum, got flustered at the quick heat for the early switch off Rowain, and then disappeared.  Scum buddies would try to coax him in the wolf thread but say he doesn't show up again, say he's as flustered as thrawn (we are rather merciless on new players).  Fearing that scum is going to want to make lemonade as best they can and so will keep him as suspicious.  And then finally, when it's near the end of the day and he does not show up then it's a great time to place a safe vote on him.  It's safe whether he gets lynched or not, really.


Now do note this is all speculation on IF Dark Savant turns up scum.  However I think it likely that he disappeared from heat and what makes sense to me is a newbie scum getting caught early, getting flustered and then packing it in.  Could be he turns town, but sadly the only thing I feel certain of is that he is getting mod killed at the end of the day/night/whenver it was that Comm said he'd get mod killed at.

TL;DR - if Dark Savant turns up scum, then Lewwyn's day 1 looks very scummy to me.

Fake Edit:  lots of cross-posts with some questions to me, will address those next post.

So let me get this straight,
your case on me depends
on the alignment of a man
whose life may simply end?

This is worse than the last game
where I was strung up when commodore
had a red name.

This time we don't even wait
to see my head on a plate.
And even then his alignment should
not decide my blood.

This is a terrible argument
and one that seems wholly manufactured.
Are you moved fully away from rowain?
Why? How? is our agreement fractured?

[Lewwyn]

Also, I feel ashamed that i haven't praised Gazglum yet for his verse.  It's a joy to read, Gazglum.

And also this makes me quiver,
what am I? chopped liver!?

[novice]

I didn't want to answer on Lewwyn's behalf but I fully agree with him that Pindicator's dog walking case is terrible. To add to what Lewwyn said, it completely arbitrarily singles out the Lewwyn amongst the DS voters. Why am I not scum by the same reasoning?

[Lewwyn]

I didn't want to answer on Lewwyn's behalf but I fully agree with him that Pindicator's dog walking case is terrible. To add to what Lewwyn said, it completely arbitrarily singles out the Lewwyn amongst the DS voters. Why am I not scum by the same reasoning?

At the risk of making our bond seem more
I have to vote for Pindicator.
The attack on me is sooo bad,
it really makes me feel sad.

[AdrienIer]

@Lewwyn it is a question going back to novice post about a modkill bad for scum and my answer to it.

here

I must have missed this post before
because now your question makes more sense
I also see that the novice was responding to Adrien more
and Adrien is the start the whole sequence.

Again I find this troublesome
because its mostly meta speculation
and an easy way to have some content
and slip into discussion.

I also note that Adrien jumped to reply
when you asked your additional by and by.

Huh ?? I mentioned in passing that the wolves could have been trying to wait for a DS modkill when talking about Serdoa's thrawn vote. In no way did I want to start a discussion about it. Serdoa mentioned it in his response, which made novice talk about it more. And from there it became an actual topic of discussion.

It's also because there's so little to talk about. The D1 lynch was about an absentee and someone who only reappeared at the very end of the day. The cases against them were thin or inexistent. It's making it harder to discuss things today...

[Serdoa]

This will be a longer quote-post, sorry for that, but there are just too many inconsistencies in pindis posts.

Early on he hits Dark Savant for switching his vote off Rowain so quickly

Then votes for him in #61

Later switches to Rowain in #127 as the very public argument between them went.  Full disclosure: i never did a close read on this part, only have skimmed it.  But I thought #138 stood out to me when he talks about thrawn:

This time may indeed be different
but a vote cast for thrawn
does not mean not innocent.
Easy is not always wrong.

I do not like your broad broad stroke here,
I agree that voting thrawn may be easy.
And there maybe scum among the tier
But that alone is not enough Mr. beefy.

So agreeing with Rowain that there may be scum attacking thrawn while attacking Rowain for doing precisely that? While possible, I would expect more elaboration.  (And dammit, maybe some prose too?)  What makes Rowain more suspicious for attacking thrawn voters than other people?  If there are scum possibly among the thrawn voters why do we not hear Lewwyn puzzle this out later?  Lewwyn would very much puzzle out something like that.  Keeping it hidden and narrow here is very un-Lewwyn, if I might borrow a Rowain-ism.

That is not what Lewwyn wrote nor how this played out. Lewwyn questioned Rowain because Rowain attacked me for voting thrawn with an argument that seemed to be that it is an easy vote for scum to make. And Lewwyn questions him exactly for the reason Rowain has given, not for the action.

Basically, your whole part is a mis-characterization of what actually was the topic. Yes, you've made a point of telling us beforehand that you actually haven't read it, but I think if you are actually now questioning what happened there, you really should re-read it first. It's not like we have a ton of mislynches to say "Oops, should have read it more closely, my bad...".

Also, should we take this as your statement that you don't think there is scum among the thrawn-voters? If not, why have you not tried to puzzle it out pindi?

There's some back-and-forth with AdrienIer later but no votes.  Until we get this post later in day 1 where Lewwyn agrees with AdrienIer on Dark Savant:

.
.
.

So I can understand the waffling back and forth on Thrawn's disappearance.  What I don't understand is why the empathy for thrawn and yet not Dark Savant?

All this to get at what I was puzzling this morning on the walk:  what if Dark Savant is scum, got flustered at the quick heat for the early switch off Rowain, and then disappeared.  Scum buddies would try to coax him in the wolf thread but say he doesn't show up again, say he's as flustered as thrawn (we are rather merciless on new players).  Fearing that scum is going to want to make lemonade as best they can and so will keep him as suspicious.  And then finally, when it's near the end of the day and he does not show up then it's a great time to place a safe vote on him.  It's safe whether he gets lynched or not, really.

Now do note this is all speculation on IF Dark Savant turns up scum.  However I think it likely that he disappeared from heat and what makes sense to me is a newbie scum getting caught early, getting flustered and then packing it in.  Could be he turns town, but sadly the only thing I feel certain of is that he is getting mod killed at the end of the day/night/whenver it was that Comm said he'd get mod killed at.

TL;DR - if Dark Savant turns up scum, then Lewwyn's day 1 looks very scummy to me.

So, DS is scum and got flustered - because his scum-buddy Lewwyn voted for him? And scum somehow planned around all this, because they knew, while the day was playing out that he considered not showing up anymore? That seems very unlikely imo. Else Comm would probably have someone take his place instead (Bob?). I don't like meta speculation anyhow, but this one here seems to not even be speculation for the speculation, but to be aimed specifically against Lewwyn.

It's more that whenever I would vote and agree with him in the previous games he would get suspicious of it.  Yet last night he praised me as town for thinking like him.  I had said something similar for my early day 1 town read on him, and I could not think of where I had publicly been in agreement with him except on attacking you, Rowain.

When I asked him about it today he said that we also voted on Dark Savant together.  And yes, I did vote on Dark Savant.  But I never was pushing a case on him at the end.  I was defending Thrawn (and getting angry at Serdoa).  My vote for Dark Savant was only to try and save Thrawn - I know I didn't post as much in the thread, but I think that's kind of obvious from what I was saying before the vote.  So no, I don't think we had any public agreement on Dark Savant that would make him think that i was towny.

When you voted you DS you wrote "Strongly disagree Serdoa". What else did you write before? Lets see, you gave thrawn a pat on the back to get him to play more, I'm not sure I count that as defending thrawn or "obviously" trying to save him. Maybe before that post? Hm, just some snippets:

"However, I feel that the delivery from Lewwyn's end would be different if he was scum" or
"I think there's some merit to suspecting DS for his vote away from Rowain." or

You also agreed that Rowains attack was feeling scummy, so you know, that reads much like you agreeing with Lewwyns reads or Lewwyn in general. You even state that you feel he would have offered his power differently if he was scum, which indicates you saw him rather as town obviously.

Although that is an interpretation that is at least internally consistent, I think you had to fill in pretty large gaps in what he posted to reach that clarification. Wouldn't you want to check with Superdeath that your interpretation is correct, instead of simply thanking him for the clarification?

I don't follow what you mean at all, novice. What large gaps am I making?  Are you confounding me agreeing with his point with me thanking him for clarifying the point he has made?

Honestly, I wonder if you are being intentionally obtuse here.  So please help me understand your thinking.

I agree with novice here. You are thanking him for his clarification, even though his clarification just opens more questions. But you don't ask them. That I think is also what novice is going at.

Also rowain you haven't swapped
would you now that your case pindi's dropped?

If you insinuate I only vote for people voting me then both are no longer voting for me.

I think you read Lewwyns posts too negative Rowain and assume he is trying to "catch" you doing something wrong, when he actually tries to understand what you think. At least that is my interpretation.

[pindicator]

I took this as clarifying his first post to mean that someone would do a PR like this to Serdoa specifically because people could then wonder about him faking it because he was a rogue.  My first reading of Superdeath's post was like yours: that it sounded like he was saying someone did it to Serdoa and Serdoa was faking it, which made no sense.  This second post clarifies Superdeath's stance.

Although that is an interpretation that is at least internally consistent, I think you had to fill in pretty large gaps in what he posted to reach that clarification. Wouldn't you want to check with Superdeath that your interpretation is correct, instead of simply thanking him for the clarification?

I don't follow what you mean at all, novice. What large gaps am I making?  Are you confounding me agreeing with his point with me thanking him for clarifying the point he has made?

Honestly, I wonder if you are being intentionally obtuse here.  So please help me understand your thinking.

Original Superdeath post for reference:

I can see how post 135 by superdeath corresponds to what others have described as "scum going for the easy mislynch on thrawn". It's also his first serious post, almost 24h in. And it's in the middle of some interesting back and forth between various players, so it's kind of odd that he'd try to redirect the discussion on thrawn.
The fact that he comes back at post 215 but posts nothing that contributes to the discussion is also a bad point.

Pressuring Serdoa for his vote leads nowhere until he can talk freely, so Superdeath

I stayed on Thrawn because of two reasons, 1: He failed to mention anything that wasnt "what should i be" or other nonsense and i wanted him to post something of substance 2: I went to bed and was at work when he showed up at the end.

I, the great warlock of Yggdrasil do not see any reason other than deception for the glorious game-maker to give anyone the ability to make Serdoa have this talking restriction. I believe it is a classic rogue trick to avoid suspicion and protect himself from being kicked out this round.


Who would be granted such an ability? While i believe it is a ruse, my best guesses would be the  Monk   making someone else only able to "meditate"/vote OR Rowain the barbarian, perhaps with some sort of "rage/anger blinds you/cant talk"?

If Serdoa has this posting restriction, someone doesnt want him using the scroll that easily to bring back someone from the dead to give us wisdom. That is my best guess

As I asked Superdeath:

You think it is a ruse by Serdoa, but you’re voting Adrien for being behind it anyway?

Meant to say "would look like something Rogue-Like" As in, if you were to use a power of deception/control like a posting restriction, the rogue would be the perfect target imo. While i do doubt that Serdoa would do that to himself ( although it would be the 500 IQ play of the century ) The 2 mentioned players are the only ones where i could feasibly see having a power that fits this problem. Of the two, the Monk seems the easier fit as Meditating is rather quiet and a full no-voting power would be WAY too OP for this game. Unless this is the magical power of the Grognard?

Where does «would look like something Rogue-Like» fit into your original post?

I mean, I still don't get it. To me it reads like:

Superdeath: Monkeys can fly
Everybody: What?
Superdeath: I meant, flies can swim.
Pindicator: Thanks for the clarification.

If that's honestly your take then why aren't you asking superdeath for more clarification?

To me it's not at all like that. It's like:

Superdeath: Monkeys can fly and serdoa is flying so maybe serdoa is faking being a monkey but someone also turned serdoa into a monkey
Everybody: What?
Superdeath: I meant, someone turned Serdoa into a monkey because he was the natural person for faking being a monkey
Pindicator: Thanks for the clarification.

You know what, another scum point for novice.

[Lewwyn]

@Lewwyn it is a question going back to novice post about a modkill bad for scum and my answer to it.

here

I must have missed this post before
because now your question makes more sense
I also see that the novice was responding to Adrien more
and Adrien is the start the whole sequence.

Again I find this troublesome
because its mostly meta speculation
and an easy way to have some content
and slip into discussion.

I also note that Adrien jumped to reply
when you asked your additional by and by.

Huh ?? I mentioned in passing that the wolves could have been trying to wait for a DS modkill when talking about Serdoa's thrawn vote. In no way did I want to start a discussion about it. Serdoa mentioned it in his response, which made novice talk about it more. And from there it became an actual topic of discussion.

It's also because there's so little to talk about. The D1 lynch was about an absentee and someone who only reappeared at the very end of the day. The cases against them were thin or inexistent. It's making it harder to discuss things today...

Yeah I too am pulling at threads and looking at why what happened
I don't think it was engineered, but I am being cautious.
Specifically because you've been the center of a lot of meta
and too much speculation makes me nauseous.

Tell me adrien what you think of Pindicator?
Do you see merit in his attack on me
or shold he be shown the door?

[Serdoa]

It's also because there's so little to talk about. The D1 lynch was about an absentee and someone who only reappeared at the very end of the day. The cases against them were thin or inexistent. It's making it harder to discuss things today...

I agree that it felt silent today for some reason, even though by the post count it shouldn't, but by the content it did. Though I disagree that it's making it hard to discuss today. Just move away from looking only at the votes themselves. I made a long post, not just answering you, Rowain made some posts one could question, novice was feeling frustrated but now seems back, why is that, pindicator and his bad case, Lewwyn, rhyming but also engaging?, Gazglum being kind and all, but is he scum-hunting even, WK skating by...

Not everyone is scum, most are not even. But who do you think is and why? I gathered you don't like my thrawn vote, but besides that I think there has happened more than enough that one could discuss it.

[pindicator]

Lewwyn, is it funny that I feel better about you now that you are attacking me?

I would say either Novice or Serdoa is scum and would lean novice.

Though the fact that everybody is ignoring the part about the Dark Savant-lewwyn post is that i explicitly say that it only points Lewwyn as scummy IF Dark Savant flips scum himself - i want to call you all idiots for that. More likely some of you are as lost as I am. But novice is just being obtuse here.