[Game Thread] WW49: Wizards and Werewolves

[pindicator]

AdrienIer, this is the post that really stood out to me:

Some reads while the thread blew up while I was away, the rest will have to wait until tonight:


superdeath: I have no flipping idea what that logic is of yours superdeath. Is this superdeath being superdeath or scum superdeath doing a terrible job of playing scum? I'm so lost I don't even know where to begin... The fact that Tarkeel was killed overnight while spending the whole day on you makes me very suspicious as well. What do you have to say to that superdeath?

pindicator: Your case on Lewwyn is shocking, not going to lie. Just giving up as well is incredibly scummy. Did you not learn from last game that this is not good for town?

Gaz: I really don't like that post implying the day would be between novice v Rowain. The post itself is fine to start the day with but it was made 6 hours after SD made his ridiculous claims, I can believe 1-2 hours if you are multitasking but not 6. You then came out saying the SD's posts were terrible only after Adrien & Serdoa hammered on him. Gaz, are you going to claim you missed superdeath's earlier posts after they had been up for several hours?


I don't see myself voting for anyone else at the moment. Gazglum for now until he responds.

This is not the same WarriorKnight that we saw in the last game. The takes here are flippant and there are so few of them. Me being as angry as I was yesterday I was about to tilt when I read his take on me, but then took a moment and realized he's not correctly representing me or trying to suss out motivations between parties. I never said I was giving up and I'm not behaving the same as the prior game. He's just shoveling muck. Equating what I'm doing now to what I did last game is lazy at best. But nefarious at worst because these are the kinds of things that tend to get echoed because it's a simple enough exaggeration. You can see Serdoa repeating that same sentiment just a few hours ago.

He only comments on easy targets here. There's no digging into who else may be wolf or not. He says more is coming tonight but that never materializes. We've had a few scattered comments since, takes on single players as he's been called out. But I'm not seeing a pattern that indicates to me that he really is trying to find scum.

[novice]

Well, I'd still say that I did not hammer thrawn - and I've explained before why, the 0.1 would not change any of those arguments I believe - but I stand by having voted him because of the reasons I have given (which of course you can disagree on my read on him, but I think I answered that when I answered Adriens post already). If I have that 0.1 vote, you can be certain that I will have used it on my chosen lynch though. Feel free to add it to me in case of thrawn (or add 0.8 if you want) and if that leads to any questions that you feel have not yet been answered ask away.

If I have it however or if my power is more rogue-ish, is not something I feel does help town to know. I'm sure it'd be nice for scum to know if I have that power or if I'm more of a hiding-type though. If the majority requests me to reveal, I'll do so however.

And lastly: I have some issues with Gaz claimed power. If I am not missing something, that is a clear town-aligned power. Scum would basically get nothing from it - even if the Grognard can kill / we have a Vig, trading one wolf for another (not to speak of wolf for villager...) isn't really doing anything for them. Actually, if it really is the case that his alignment is not revealed though, that might be to exactly prevent the case that he rolls scum and then when he would protect another wolf would get revealed as one, which would in turn make his killer just kill his former target again. But there are several hoops to jump from for that to make some sense 

a) someone else besides wolves who can kill
b) some reason why a certain wolf needs protection
c) him not revealing his role, so that his killer would have to second-guess if his kill didn't go through or if some protection was at work... (yeah, because that is not something you'll think about when you try to kill a and instead b is dead - sure  if there are two night-kills you might not know you was the protector, but then one shows up without alignment... well, I guess this wouldn't be too hard to unravel)

As stated before the powers have been rolled before alignment. I don't think that Comm included a power that would so clearly be useless for scum in those role-powers (he might have as a non-role-power, but then I would assume that Gaz would tell us that he has this power + his role-power). I'm also still at a loss what alignment is not provided in which case, I'm sorry, but those rhymes don't really answer that for me. 

Anyhow, that alone is not something I would fret about, but in the light of him gaining votes I have to ask if he is stating the truth or if he is coming up with a role that sounds believable and town-ish so that we refrain from lynching him today.

Serdoa, you say that Gazglum's claim is suspect, because his role is unlikely, because Commodore would make sure to give everybody roles that could be helpful for both and town.

But if your premise is correct - that Commodore would make sure to give everybody "neutral" roles - then Gazglum could just claim his actual role, right?

It's possible that Commodore has not made sure to give everybody neutral roles. But in that case, either
* Gazglum is unlucky scum who doesn't have an obviously neutral role, and felt the need to fake claim bodyguard.
* Gazglum is unlucky town who doesn't have an obviously neutral role, but claimed his actual role of bodyguard.
and both should be equally probable, one would think.

Do you think Gazglum has an actual ability that he doesn't want to claim, and prefers to claim bodyguard instead? What would that ability be?

[Rowain]

Ok then who are your other targets ?

In the supershort version everyone.
Abit less likely to vote Lewwyn, Adrien .
Maybe not Serdoa although I find his dancing around the 0.1 vote strange. But I can write this off as different views of the game.

[Serdoa]

I have not read anything from the last 10 posts or more, basically since Adrien asked if we are all asleep, anyhow

Gazglum

Though I will change in a heartbeat to pindi if he gains traction. My other preferences should be known as well.

[Rowain]

Adrien faces some hard times in Real France,
He needs some time away from our Pretend Dance.

Ah. My apologies then. Ill dig thru the last 8hrs of posts for scum-tells

[pindicator]

Love you too, Serdoa.

[Rowain]

This is not the same WarriorKnight that we saw in the last game.  The takes here are flippant and there are so few of them.  Me being as angry as I was yesterday I was about to tilt when I read his take on me, but then took a moment and realized he's not correctly representing me or trying to suss out motivations between parties.  I never said I was giving up and I'm not behaving the same as the prior game.  He's just shoveling muck.  Equating what I'm doing now to what I did last game is lazy at best.  But nefarious at worst because these are the kinds of things that tend to get echoed because it's a simple enough exaggeration.  You can see Serdoa repeating that same sentiment just a few hours ago.

Truth be told that

I dont want to play this game. I just don't have any heart to defend. I'm town. There, that's my defense.

did read to me similar like last game-pindi. You did pick up more energy later so I don't hold it against you but please acknowledge that maybe you gave said impression.

[Lewwyn]

I've broken my poetic seal
I'm might as well just deal...

So:

I fear your case is fizzling before it starts,
Let me simply point to a couple broken parts.

Look I don't like this post. I haven't liked a lot of Gazglum's posts today. I diidn't really like Gazglum ending the day on thrawn either. I mean he's saying here in this last sttanza that he's not afraid to kill a vet. But Day 1 he sure seemed to be happy sliding back into thrawn. And look I don't think voting thrawn is a scum tell, but I think that coupled with his posts today and again this post in particular it feels scummy to me.

Shocking as it seems, Ser Glum must sometimes sleep.
For hours before I laid my vote, Ser Thrawn made not a peep.
Surely, Ser, you remember?
You also mused we Thrawn dismember.

Rowain it seems thrawn has returned today
but his content is insubstantial.
Does this change your mind on Serdoa
or is the evidence still too circumstantial?

You may think thrawn easy, but this post does not help
I'm quite getting ready myself to make the poor boy yelp.

By the way rowain here's more fuel for your fire
I am suspicious of thrawn who's posts don't inspire.

He appeared for a moment today,
then disappeared before he had anything to say.

Do you still think he is a bad vote?
Or have you seen that maybe he's on the float.

My dearest Ser, I pity you. Hypocrisy, thy name is Lew.
And what of Ser-Doa, who pushed the vote when Thrawn returned?
Whyfore is he, of your suspicion now so spurned?

This attack would be fair if you didn't cherry pick the other posts out of context and time. First I'm asking Rowain his opinion on thrawn because A) I think he's scum, B) he attacked Serdoa for his vote on thrawn (whether he was attacking serdoa for how he voted or for the vote of thrawn in particular is immaterial, simply that because of it I was pestering Rowain about it). And as I said before I don't think voting for thrawn was scummy. I think voting for thrawn and then today in that post using the scroll as an excuse to vote for a stronger player is scummy. You voted Rowain during day 1 but then slipped off him and then came back at novice today. I don't have as much an issue with you attacking novice and voting for him, but you are couching youur confidence in him being scum within the reasoning that a mislynch is less of a mistake today because of the item

SO yes at one point I grew suspicious of thrawn and then I got cold feet. And I literally talked about that before he showed back up. then he did come back and I still didn't feel like he was entirely suspicious, he didn't even vote to save himself. My vote on Dark Savant wasn't very confident either, but I was more confident in him then thrawn throughout the day even when I did suspect him.

So no I do not blame you for going to sleep and leaving your vote on thrawn. I think the leaving your vote on thrawn combined with the extra confidence in voting for an active player in great part because of the item to be scummy.

[pindicator]

Rowain, I'm extremely frustrated by the meta certain people are pushing on me. I have to post a certain way. I have to post a certain amount. I have to post very technically accurate. And then they pick apart the one instance where I don't meet there meta standards, dismiss the rest, throw it back at me like it's some evidence of evil doing. Particularly I'm talking about novice and serdoa. Last game it was novice and sunrise. (I know, you're wondering "I thought Meiz was frustrating?" Meiz was frustrating for different reasons.)

Or if I do decide that I don't want to play their meta game then I'm scummy and dismissed for not following their meta rules. So what am I doing here? I'll play this out, I'll do my best to help town win, but I'm taking a break after this game. No wonder the new players Dark Savant and thrawn got intimidated and bailed. You people are ruthlessly hunting. But you're not hunting scum. You're hunting people who don't play the way you want them to.

I mean, Serdoa can't even share a laugh with me about how stupidly hypocritical his post was: he calls me unfair for disparaging the people who attack me for picking apart my stuff line by line. And he does it in the very same post where he's just picked apart Superdeath's post line by line! I mean, come on. At least see how funny and dumb that is.

(I'd also argue it's pointless. You're not finding intent, you're saying "aha, you don't make sense!" and then trying to pretend that means they are scum.)

I feel like this gets brought up at the end of every game and then the next game goes back to the same stuff. Well I'm tired of it. And if you don't want me to bitch about it then stop doing it. Like I said, I'll play this out. But some of you need to look in the mirror.

[Commodore]

Tally as of 10:32 CDT 10/29/2020

Lynch votes
3 votes: Gazglum (WarriorKnight, Lewwyn, Serdoa)
2.1 votes: Novice (Rowain, Gazglum)
2 votes: Superdeath (AdrienIer, novice)
1 votes: Warrior Knight (pindicator)
1 votes: AdrienIer (superdeath)