[Game Thread] WW49: Wizards and Werewolves

[AdrienIer]

Superdeath

[pindicator]

What's this? AdrienIer can't speak!
One thought his cases not weak
And sent a notion
To end his commotion
Could a warlock perform this tweak?

[Tarkeel]

Tarkeel, can you still read the graveyard thread? Would be nice to know who Gaz protected.

I can be your guide to the spirit world, but it's been very quiet there lately.

What's this? AdrienIer can't speak!
One thought his cases not weak
And sent a notion
To end his commotion
Could a warlock perform this tweak?

The warlock was entangled and not the source of the mayhem on the previous day. I suspect some sort of skull-bash.

That, or Serdoa and AdrienIer are a brilliant munchkin-team attacking each other, but I really don't think that.

[Rowain]

GG Ser Gaz de Glum

Hello again Tarkeel

[pindicator]

I would appeal to our local grognard now.  If you are a survivor role as I suspect you are, then clearly you can see with so much of the field cleared as town that you should work with us and hunt out the remaining scum.  Town is going to win this, be on our side!

The survivor only wins if they are alive, so they would have to being night-killed by the munchkins. The best way to do that (as I see it) is to actively go for mis-lynches, while not being so annoying about it that you're lynched yourself. It's a very narrow edge to walk.

I do not mean they retort
Or openly claim survivor
Just hunt with the town
Vote all the scum down
And win without needing come fore

[pindicator]

Tarkeel, can you still read the graveyard thread? Would be nice to know who Gaz protected.

I can be your guide to the spirit world, but it's been very quiet there lately.

My limm'ricks are not quite his verse
But this is a boon not a curse
I'd like him around
Since it's clear he's town
Through you Gazglum can with us converse!

[novice]

Both Lewwyn and Serdoa obviously come out of the end of day 2 looking bad, especially now that Gazglum is almost certainly town. Out of the two I think Serdoa is more suspicious than Lewwyn. Gazglum outlined a good case, and so far Serdoa has only responded to the weaker parts of it.

Lewwyn, could you elaborate on this post:

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

And this one, was there a link between what I posted and your response? Or did you just want to point fingers at SD immediately after we'd lynched WK?

I can’t believe that process caught scum. 

GG WarriorKnight

So SD next?

If anyone has any action results on Lewwyn, or anybody else for that matter, I'd be very interested to hear about them.

[pindicator]

I think Gazglum was a true 'un
When he surmised scum was construin'
To push all the blame
On superdeath's mane
And this brings me back 'round to Lewwyn

[Serdoa]

I'm so happy, the first Gazglum case in years !

I don't agree with it, but you can't have it all.

What's wrong with it? I think in particular the part that I've left in in this quote was good:

At the end of Day 2, after saying Night 1 that Rowain and I were the two people he did not see himself voting for, Serdoa made an opportunistic vote on me once Lewwyn and WarriorKnight had laid hte groundwork. He said, among other things, that I had been over the top in refusing the scroll from Novice and Lewwyn. 

Which, fine if he genuinely thought it scummy, except this had already happened Night 1! And after that whole discussion had ended, Serdoa had put me in his town-leans as one of the three people he did not suspect of being a munchkin:

I'm fine with Tarkeel, that is someone I do not see myself voting tomorrow indeed, partly because I like what he writes, partly because I have no feel for him yet. 

Basically, I consider superdeath, DS, Adrien, WK, Lewwyn, novice and pindi as my most likely votes tomorrow and rather have none of them have the scroll. I especially don't want to give SD and DS more reason not to participate. I don't have the same reluctance about the others, I am pretty sure every one of them will be active, no matter if they have the scroll or not. I just suspect them being munchkins. 

(And yes, I realize that this leaves only Tarkeel, Rowain and Gazglum. I'm not a very trusting person...)

So Day 2, Serdoa is retroactively making a case he did not believe in at the time, because with the Lewwyn and Warriorknight vote, it now looks like I might hang.

Serdoa

So, I guess with you novice I now have to figure out myself what you actually accuse me of? You know, from Gazglum I accepted that, he was narrow-minded set on me and his case made that clear. I think he tried very hard to fit facts to his case instead of his case to the facts, but I've been there, done that, so I really can't blame him. But you? You have not made the case, you should have a much more neutral look on it, realize its weaknesses and especially notice how if you take away those weaknesses there is not much left - essentially a Gazglum who perceives threats to himself as signs of wolfness (see: N1, novice and Lewwyn are bad for trying to give me the scroll). I would at least expect you to go back yourself and check how my vote came about, and not just to quote a part of Gaz post without fact-checking it. Not because I am so important, but because you should be interested in catching another scum and making sure as best you can that it is not a mislynch.

Anyhow, as for Gaz point. It is (from his perspective):

a) Serdoa didn't mind me being pissed at novice and Lewwyn for trying to give me the scroll at night.
b) In #371 he even declared that he does not see me as a likely vote-target for D2.
c) But he voted me D2 regardless and mentioned that he didn't like my "scroll-phobia".
d) Therefore Serdoa is scum.

As novice mentions this point specifically I'll just answer to that. I'm happy to answer to all other points in Gaz post as well, it just means I spend time defending which is taken from time searching for scum. And that isn't very productive if the defense is against points that should be obviously wrong for anyone, but as I can't just write "Obviously wrong" but have to provide source and quote, it costs time.

So, how did I get to my Gaz vote? I started in post #480, trying to unravel one of his rhymes that I did not understand. Especially why he insisted that the Rowain/novice-show had to be resolved. In #536 I complain about it being quiet and that we talk among ourselves, but that, while I don't like the low input of many, I don't necessarily disagree with the answers they give, so no reason to jump on them any further. I do however mention that Gaz only has 5 posts on D2. In #552 I give another hint that I don't like Gaz play, because he ask rhetorical questions without looking for the answer himself (as does others as I point out). I also request clarification why he thinks WK is townish. In #566 I tell Gaz that I don't agree with his thoughts BUT I won't vote him on D2. (Btw: If novice actually would scum-hunt, he should have pointed this post out to strengthen his case, but it is hard to find the energy to invest in these cases when you know they are bullshit, I know from experience.)

In that post #566 I do tell him however that I do find it surprising that he finds the scroll-discussion important. And then, in #611 is when I first tell him that I don't like his posts (of D2) and consider voting him regardless of what I stated before. A good part of it is that we had issues understanding him and he replied agreeing that he rhymes make it hard and when asked if he can't drop them (and novice confirming that you just lose the 0.1 vote if you do) he suddenly states that he would never do that. That seemed to me like he was hiding behind those rhymes, putting the importance of holding them up over scum-hunting - which is not very townish in my book. But there is much more at that point, read it yourselves here I don't think trying to paraphrase what was going on with Lew, Gaz, me is making sense.

In #627 I made my reads on everyone known. I had shortly before given my long post on Gaz, so I only mentioned here that I also didn't like the scroll-business. But from my other post (#611 which I linked) it is clear that this is NOT my only gripe. Gaz singled this point out specifically though in his attack on me, and, given the night results, I assume he just wanted to hammer home. However I wrote in #627

Till his spat with Lewwyn I was not putting too much thought towards that. While the above described and other small stuff seemed odd, he also was rhyming and I simply decided that his posts lacked clarity / more detailed explanations due to that.

Again, I am suspicious of novice because I would expect him to look at these things and not just lazily re-iterate Gaz point without looking himself. So either he did and ignored what he found or he simply didn't even look in the first place.

Further on: In #680 I finally vote Gaz and in #693 I explain to novice why I don't like Gaz roleclaim. Obviously that was the truth, but at the time I felt he might have made one that sounded more townish to get some rest from his accusers.

I think this shows pretty well how this evolved over the day and was not just on opportunistic jump when it seemed best.

Just so it's clear, I entangled our warlock the first night.

There are not many players left for the silence-power now. And while I before did not see it as necessarily scumish, that it was first used on me (when I felt townie to many it seems) and then on Adrien (probably closest to a confirmed town we have) while no one comes forward claiming to have it, makes me feel that the someone who has it might indeed be scum. He also values someone not being able to talk for 12 hours too highly - that is 18:00 to 06:00 for us Europeans and both Aussies are dead - there isn't much happening in that time-slot regardless.

So, would could it be?

Serdoa - no (you'll have to take my word for it)
Lewwyn - no (claimed something else and showed he has it)
Adrien - no (I doubt he uses it on himself, or only if he has to use it, but that seems very unlikely)
SD - no (as per Tarkeel)
Rowain
novice
pindicator

So, who of you three is it, and why?

Lewwyn, this just-before-deadline accusation is perhaps the most munchkin-behavior I've seen: attacking and misrepresenting someone whom (if you're munchkin) you know won't be unable to defend themselves. That might be why you're not so keen on this spirit returning to haunt you? Or were you thinking you would be night-killed, like Pindi's late post right now? You give no indication that way though.

This is actually RB-meta. But I did think about if Lewwyn faked his "fear" of dying in the night to appear more town. His attack on you would be a great ploy, because why would a wolf attack the one they know will be dead and show up as villager? Well, to appear as misguided villager, as a wolf would surely not do that.

And before I am called out for not having written that before: Go back and look what I have written before. It is quite a bit - so yes, I have not mentioned every single bit and piece I see someone doing that I find odd or which could be a wolf-ploy. Maybe that's why I got a little upset with pindis rant, because I already try not to jump on everything.

My friends: today I'm Inspired!
Yet Gazglum now has retired
He shot a good shot
And stop'd munchkin plot
I think for town he aspired

Yes. And it would be nice to know whom he protected.

[Serdoa]

I think Gazglum was a true 'un
When he surmised scum was construin'
To push all the blame
On superdeath's mane
And this brings me back 'round to Lewwyn

Pindi, I would actually see superdeath as a very potential 3rd scum. But look at his posts and tell me how to get a grasp on that. Someone will say low content and see him as wolf, I will see more content than WW46 - and therefore wolf. But the truth is, with nearly nothing from his side, many RP-posts and a vote for thrawn D1 and Adrien D2, the most damning thing anyone can have on him is that he wanted to post more about his thoughts and never did.

However, I do think that trying to push / discuss him right now is not making any sense. Even if he is the 3rd scum, the question is "Who is second?"

So, lets think about that. I'll give a hint as to what I think right now:

novice

I'll post more on this later, but even though it is only 9 PM here, I am tired and don't want to go through all of his posts right now. I do think that there are many oddities though, summarized as "Not scumhunting, not really interested, kinda checked out". Not that he isn't making posts, just that they lack punch.

But on the other hand, besides him, I can only look towards Lewwyn - and I admit that it doesn't look that great over there either. On the other other hand, wavering around won't get me many points today, looking like I try to see where the wind blows to not get lynched myself. Which I would like to prevent as it would be a mislynch, but we all will be saying that while we are dragged screaming to the gallows.