[SPOILERS]A new adventure of Vanrober always guided by chumchu

[vanrober]

Hello everyone!

Im really busy right now, new job, in another place, renting houses need to contract Internet, andseveral new things i am not used to them.

Now i am writing this on a 42" TV because somehow i lost my HDMI-VGA adapter so my Computer Screen is unable to conect to my graph card.

Anyway, i really hope this to come better ona  few days and i will start simming and posting as much as i am /were on PB54. I would like you (chumchu) to know that it would be nice to have you as deep as you want to be, i am really enjoying this game so far with the new knowledge im getting on every game.

[chumchu]

That sounds very hectic. Where do you live? I live in Sweden.

I'll do my best then. Have you lurked Pb 53? It was SD first map and I think it is unusually lush even for RB. Something to bear in mind when choosing civ/leader

[vanrober]

That sounds very hectic. Where do you live? I live in Sweden.

I'll do my best then. Have you lurked Pb 53? It was SD first map and I think it is unusually lush even for RB. Something to bear in mind when choosing civ/leader

Im a spanish kid. Closero to 20 than to 30, here the situation in economics-covid is really shitty, i ve been so lucky on this job. 
I ve been on sweden once in a small village called Pellbo doing a summer camp. It was crazy for me to have sunrise at 3am. I loved that camp.

Coming back to game, i am looking at PB53 that lush flat map. Superdead wanted to make some lush cities with barb longbows taking care of them, but some players told him not to. He might do it now since we didnt say a thing. Some people asked for a less lush map but im not sure what will he bring us. 
I will try to keep the way on posting everything as i did on PB54, (take a look if you want) i will try to make it here the same unless you ask me for some different posts.

I ve been talking with GKC with PM since he told me he was reading those faster. If you have any preferences just tell me, im fine either way. To sim i will make a single player game and change it as fast as out scouting is doing. Im not sure if you prefer an excel sheet.

As long as we decide if we go snake or random i will post a bit of my impresions (also wanting to see the starting screenshot before taking anything serius)

[superdeath]

[vanrober]

Okey, that was fast!

Thanks Superdeath. 

It seems really rich of resources. I think a hunting start might make sense. But i ll make some simms to see.

I really like imp trait, and i would like to play it with pro or fin to try to get a good expansion and then dont fall behind on gold. But we will see how things end

[chumchu]

Pellbo is close to where I grew up in Uppsala.

Lush as expected =) Looks like it has more hammers than last time though.

A good starting point for the snake pick could be to decide if you are going for civ or leader first,

I agree on Imp being good with this capital. There are a lot of hammers and good tiles to work even unimproved which makes a fast second or third city to share those resources very attractive. Pro/Fin are good pairings as both of them scale well with many cities. With monarch difficulty the tech costs should not be too high so I do not think that they are necessary. What is your opinion on CHA and PHI? I can see them being useful with this much food and good tiles. (Maybe SPI/CRE/ORG as well)

There are a fair few civs with hunting start tech. Is there any in partivular you are interested in?

Hunting/mining
Ethiopia
Germany
Khmer
Russia

Hunting/Wheel
Mongols

Hunting/mysticism
Aztec
Celts
Holy Roman Empire

Hunting/fishing
Greece
Vikings

Hunting/Agriculture
Persia
Zulu

[vanrober]

Pellbo is close to where I grew up in Uppsala.

Lush as expected =) Looks like it has more hammers than last time though.

A good starting point for the snake pick could be to decide if you are going for civ or leader first,

I agree on Imp being good with this capital. There are a lot of hammers and good tiles to work even unimproved which makes a fast second or third city to share those resources very attractive. Pro/Fin are good pairings as both of them scale well with many cities. With monarch difficulty the tech costs should not be too high so I do not think that they are necessary. What is your opinion on CHA and PHI? I can see them being useful with this much food and good tiles. (Maybe SPI/CRE/ORG as well)

There are a fair few civs with hunting start tech. Is there any in partivular you are interested in?

Hunting/mining
Ethiopia
Germany
Khmer
Russia

Hunting/Wheel
Mongols

Hunting/mysticism
Aztec
Celts
Holy Roman Empire

Hunting/fishing
Greece
Vikings

Hunting/Agriculture
Persia
Zulu

Neither of the calls were a must, i really think imp pro or imp fin would fit in nearly any game. 

About the hunting must im not sure yet, there is some more things to think before getting it. I think the strategy might be one of those, i feel like trying a full trade routes game like ElGrillo on PB54 might be a nice strategy, since this game seems similar looking at the starting picture. If you feel the same way, maybe trying something like Charlemagne of Carthage or maybe Spain because of the castles like that would be a nice option. I personally prefer Spain's UU than Carthage's.

Amicalola wanted to play Incas on PB55 and didnt, so maybe he tries now.

Im playing Cyrus (IMP/CHA) on PB54, and i think I ve learnt a bit how to use CHA, but i feel it wouldnt be as needed since the lushness of the map might provide happy enough. About SPI, i feel unskilled for it, i dont use usually temples and i have not the knowledge to make changing of Civics good enough. Phi almost the same, i am not really used to played on GP nor wonders, but i know they are strong. If you feel like teaching me and helping me out, we can do it!

The points i saw of getting a hunting civ were: 
- Getting the 100% of the scout from early, (If we are playing with barbs, that i didnt understand well)
- Having the food tech required known can aim us to BW to get the hammers of chops as fast as possible to start the expansion.
- The expensive pre of AH
I dont see them cruzial at all to force us to play hunting civ at all.

So the civs, if we are paining with pro celts looks nice, Mongols UB are always usefull, Aztec are interesting but i feel i am unable to make his UB work, HRE would be nice to play if i were alone to make a turtle mode. I learned the basics of the game with Greece, i like his UU ifit were a closer map, in this case i dont see the point. Vikings are decent i guess. I dont like percia and Zulu are nice, i like them a bit nerfed the start, but it should be fine.

I dont really know what to play, im fine learning something new, maybe you had a thought?

[chumchu]

If your goal is to learn and get better at the game then I can see the merit both in trying something new and in trying to do something similar to what you did earlier but better this time. The most important question is which one of those sounds most enjoyable to you.

Re traits: PHI and SPI are definitely harder to use so choose those if you want to challenge yourself. If the map is rich in food but not happy then CHA becomes better as it allows you to work all the great tiles and/or use the food to slave more early game. If it is rich in happy but low in food then CHA becomes worse. If it is rich in both then it is till ok. PRO both has the early economy and some military protection which might make you a less appealing target. If you are going to Rex with trade routes then that is definitely a plus.

Re hunting: There is no barbs this game so the scout is safe. I think that hunting is the most important tech for this start which is rarely the case. Having it from the beginning opens up a lot of possibilities: with hunting/mining you can go for animal husbandry and then bronze working to chop out the settler. With hunting/mysticism you can go for a religion without a big setback. With hunting/agri or hunting/wheel you get a very fast economic start as well.

If you want to try trade routes and Charlie or Victoria is still available then I think you should go for it. Picking Carthage could also work as you can pair it with EXP instead of IMP for half price granaries and harbors.

[vanrober]

If your goal is to learn and get better at the game then I can see the merit both in trying something new and in trying to do something similar to what you did earlier but better this time. The most important question is which one of those sounds most enjoyable to you.

Re traits: PHI and SPI are definitely harder to use so choose those if you want to challenge yourself. If the map is rich in food but not happy then CHA becomes better as it allows you to work all the great tiles and/or use the food to slave more early game. If it is rich in happy but low in food then CHA becomes worse. If it is rich in both then it is till ok. PRO both has the early economy and some military protection which might make you a less appealing target. If you are going to Rex with trade routes then that is definitely a plus.

Re hunting: There is no barbs this game so the scout is safe. I think that hunting is the most important tech for this start which is rarely the case. Having it from the beginning opens up a lot of possibilities: with hunting/mining you can go for animal husbandry and then bronze working to chop out the settler. With hunting/mysticism you can go for a religion without a big setback. With hunting/agri or hunting/wheel you get a very fast economic start as well.

If you want to try trade routes and Charlie or Victoria is still available then I think you should go for it. Picking Carthage could also work as you can pair it with EXP instead of IMP for half price granaries and harbors.

My skill is far from some of the people of this game, so aiming a win its just unreal. So i guess playing for fun and learn its just fine. I just wanted you to be confortable with the pick, i dont really know much from you, i just saw you had a lot of threads and post so i saw you were active and surely you will be a great help for me. Im saying this beacuse i really prefere to learn some of your play style than something closer to mine in which you would be less confy to help me.

So i really want to listen to any of your proposals and reasons. The best options for me would be Hunting/mining or Hunting/myst. Ive never went to early religion but it would be nice to pop borders without monuments.
Even though the most competitive oiption would be hunting mining. So Khemer>Celts>HR would be my choice, but still, i would like to know your thoughts.

About the leader, Charly, Vicky could be nice Mao for Carthage i guess then or Pacal.

[chumchu]

Do not think overly about me here. I'm comfortable with whatever you choose. I see my role as an advisor with you as the decision maker. Make choices, then I will try to advise; ask questions and then I will try to answer.

About civs:

Ethiopia is the early hunting/mining civ we have not discussed yet. Their UB is ok with 2 turns faster border pops and a slight edge in border wars. Their UU is strong against everything but cavalry units which is unfortunate as those are the most common ones in MP. Especially knights in the medieval era. Also has much better synergy with CHA than PRO. Save them for another game.

Germany and Russia are very late civs. I think you would do better with an earlier civ if you are planning on expanding fast as you want help defending that land.

Carthage is already picked so no hope for those combos. Byzantium were picked as well which is expected but still scary to face off.

Mongols is a good hunting civs that could work with IMP but I understand that you played just that in another game.

Celt works well with your ideal combo as they give you a cheap way to pop borders which is something you are lacking. Also makes you less attractive if you plant on hills. Just look at Charriu in pb 52 =)

Khmer has a counter to Byzantium but maybe should be combined them with EXP to make use of their UB.

Holy Rome wants to be combined with ORG to get their UB asap in all cities.

Aztecs are good even if you do not complete optimize the use of their UB. A cheaper courthouse that lets you to whip much more before going into unhappy is useful both early and in the later wars.

Another civ that could work with IMP/PRO is China.

To me it looks like you are maybe more decided on leader than civ so I suggest you pick leader first.