Other stuff

[darrelljs]

The French are experts at engendering boycotts, but their stuff is so good they never last long .  France has a real challenge integrating such a different value system into their own, and both sides need to budge for it to happen.  I don’t really like Marcon’s hard line stance for that reason, but domestic politics are apparently behind it?

Darrell

[Cyneheard]

Macron vs Muslims, serious stuff or normal kayfabe?

Hm. Hard to say from the US (frankly, we're so wrapped up in our own issues it's hard to look at it carefully).

Muslim integration has been a long-running tension in France (I'm recalling some high school students visiting from France when France was banning the hijab in schools in 2004 - the hijab banning came up, and there was some confusion from us Americans why banning a student's religious attire was appropriate, because those laws just wouldn't stand here).

So, my professional opinion is "maybe?"

[AdrienIer]

Basically Macron is playing for the conservative vote in 2022, while also positioning as an opponent of the far right. And Erdogan is playing for his nationalist and religious conservative base by opposing Macron directly, and pushing a France vs muslims battle (where he'd lead the muslims of course). There's also the fact that France is coming (at least in posture) to Greece's aid in the eastern mediterranean which means Erdogan is very keen on opposing France.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I think the real cause is massive vote splitting, which will cause Le Pen to get into the second round again. So Marcon is moving to the right, knowing that everyone else will suck it up and vote for him anyway.

[AdrienIer]

If the left was somewhat united it would be rather risky. But because they're set on splitting the vote, you may be right.

[Cyneheard]

If the left was somewhat united it would be rather risky. But because they're set on splitting the vote, you may be right.

And this is why Ranked Choice Voting is so much better than a runoff system.

[AdrienIer]

Yes

[Gustaran]

France has a real challenge integrating such a different value system into their own, and both sides need to budge for it to happen.

I am having difficulties understanding what you mean: A liberal democracy allows cartoons about religion. A teacher gets beheaded by an islamist militant for discussing freedom of speech in class and showing a caricature of Muhammad.

How exactly do you think both sides need to budge?

[darrelljs]

I hate to answer a question with a question, but in this case it feels appropriate. Do you believe the decapitater represents the muslims in France?

Darrell

[darrelljs]

To take my mind off the stress of this election, I'll give my non French, ill informed opinion .

For muslims in France, you chose to move to a fiercely secular country; be grateful that they've given you a home, and recognize the onus is on you to fit in.  That said, there seems to be a lot of needless provocation, to no apparent benefit.  First on the cartoons, I was typing up my thoughts when I ran across this NY times article that did a much better job than I could articulating flaws in the current approach.  Second, the hijab ban is just baffling.

Muslim integration has been a long-running tension in France (I'm recalling some high school students visiting from France when France was banning the hijab in schools in 2004 - the hijab banning came up, and there was some confusion from us Americans why banning a student's religious attire was appropriate, because those laws just wouldn't stand here).

I mean, this.  What's the logic behind the ban?  It ain't exactly a Uyghur camp in China, but on the surface it appears to have a similar objective.

Darrell