[NO PLAYERS] Lurking and Mapmaking PB55

[Bobchillingworth]

Well, possession is 9/10ths, etc. etc.; if SD can claim it, despite the distance involved, it's not your fault.

[Old Harry]

That gold, in mind, was obvious lewwyn's when i was making the map... i should've been more careful and just placed SD a bit more south somehow.

In the water?

[Charriu]

I tested it in SP and it works. The 30 hammers of a one-pop whip finish the warrior and provide the maximum possible overflow. Any forest chopped and the cities base production for two turns (start +whip turn) is excess and gets converted to gold. Costs are I need to pillage copper and then reconnect it, 4 cities eat pop 1 whips with associated loss of population and anger, five forests get chopped which could go into infrastructure. Definitely not cheap but we get Currency 5 turns earlier and more importantly prior to the next settlers being placed which could push this date back considerably. Each new cities costs almost 10 gold now and the cost will increase further.

We finally see civac2's strategy of disconnecting copper in a game. Curious to see how it goes and if his neighbors notice the loss of copper. So far it looks like he's in a safe place to make this maneuver.

[Rusten]

I used to do this in SP all the time until it was patched out at some point. It now only exists through unoffocial mods, which is why I never really considered it for PB, but I guess since switching to BUG we can do it here too. I don't really have a big issue with the warrior excess turning into gold as it's a straight 1:1 and has some downside, but the monuments with 100% modifier could be problematic. The main reason overflow turning into gold got patched out of BtS was because it was abusive with protective+stone walls. This is a lower modifier than that, but still very doable, especially since the base building is cheaper. Monuments are still available mid-game, so you could reliably get ~100+ overflow hammers into a monument for a lot of gold on demand, or even 200+ with some chops.

I'm probably picking charismatic next if it's not changed, I think it's abusive. There's a reason why getting wonder failgold from multiple cities was removed. And while you might not always be in a situation where you can spend the hammers it's an extremely useful resource to have at your disposal. Monuments are around for a long time.

[Charriu]

I'm pretty sure that the overflow is still reduced by modifiers before it is turned into gold. But just to be sure I will test it.

[Rusten]

OK, if that's the case then there's no problem. I only know it from base BtS where you did get the extra gold.

[mackoti]

OK, if that's the case then there's no problem. I only know it from base BtS where you did get the extra gold.

For sure is reduced and i think is caped so civcac will have a big unpleasent surprise.
And am I the only one which thinks removing the fail gold is making industrious even weaker? And with it playing Ind involved alot of skill and planning.

[Rusten]

Yes, it's a big nerf to Ind for sure. I miss microing the mechanic a little bit, but it's also stupid to make Moai or something similar in every city and then cash in. You can think about bringing it back now that stone and marble give 50% rather than 100%, but overall I'm not sure the mechanic is good for the game. But I completely agree that it involved some skill and planning, and I like things that increase the skill ceiling.

[Charriu]

I used to do this in SP all the time until it was patched out at some point. It now only exists through unoffocial mods, which is why I never really considered it for PB, but I guess since switching to BUG we can do it here too.  I don't really have a big issue with the warrior excess turning into gold as it's a straight 1:1 and has some downside, but the monuments with 100% modifier could be problematic. The main reason overflow turning into gold got patched out of BtS was because it was abusive with protective+stone walls. This is a lower modifier than that, but still very doable, especially since the base building is cheaper. Monuments are still available mid-game, so you could reliably get ~100+ overflow hammers into a monument for a lot of gold on demand, or even 200+ with some chops.

I'm probably picking charismatic next if it's not changed, I think it's abusive. There's a reason why getting wonder failgold from multiple cities was removed. And while you might not always be in a situation where you can spend the hammers it's an extremely useful resource to have at your disposal. Monuments are around for a long time.

I've just tested it and apparently I was wrong about this. In base BtS 3.19 there is no conversion of overflow hammers into gold. But starting from all RtR versions that used BUG and of course CtH too, there now is a conversion of overflow hammers into gold. This was part of the initial BUG merge into the mod. BUG itself includes the unoffical patch, which reintroduced this hammer-gold conversion. Time and time again I am wondering about what the U in Beyond the Sword Unaltered Gameplay really stands for if those things were part of it.

Back when I merged BUG into the mod I must have missed those lines among the thousands of code lines. I'm terribly sorry and I will remove it for future versions of RtR and CtH.

[Rusten]

It's alright, and your tireless work on this mod is greatly appreciated. It's an easy thing to miss.

IIRC there was some controversy around whether this was an intended change in the 3.19 patch or not, which is why BUG re-added it due to popular demand, and I don't think Firaxis ever gave an official response. But it was mentioned all over the forums, so if it was truly unintended I think they would've done or said something. The Pro+stone wall trick was being abused by everyone before this patch.

On the bright side charismatic is almost completely unpicked recently. I certainly would've taken it in PBEM78 had I known it was back in.