[ NO PLAYERS ] French Vanilla is the best Vanilla Icecream

[Lewwyn]

Yes, I expressed myself unclearly. Of course, it's inferior to go WB first, but if you do go for it, having to do it without a 3h/2h tile starting from T0 is horrible. Whether to do L3 or L4 settler is highly dependent upon how much you value having a warrior. It's easy to get T30 settler with 1 warrior built going worker --> wb --> warrior --> settler and teching agr -> hunting -> BW. Worker starts with corn, then improves camp, wastes a worker turn moving into a hill and mines it and finally completes the settler with a chop. I'm pretty sure this can be improved, but this is an obvious baseline.

Yeah its pretty clear that Amica is making a mistake here. I think a WB fishing start CAN work and in certain situations is not inferior. I would point to my start in PBEM 78 as an example of that. It certainly didn't slow me down there. But you have to have certain situations. IE: there I had a 3h tile and a forested deer a 4 production tile that my second citizen could work rather than just a 3 production tile. But yeah, its situational and this situation is inferior.

[Thoth]

I downloaded the map from this thread but when I try and start it up it immediately goes into "You have been defeated" and won't load?

Do you have the mod loaded?

Yes, I expressed myself unclearly. Of course, it's inferior to go WB first, but if you do go for it, having to do it without a 3h/2h tile starting from T0 is horrible. Whether to do L3 or L4 settler is highly dependent upon how much you value having a warrior. It's easy to get T30 settler with 1 warrior built going worker --> wb --> warrior --> settler and teching agr -> hunting -> BW. Worker starts with corn, then improves camp, wastes a worker turn moving into a hill and mines it and finally completes the settler with a chop. I'm pretty sure this can be improved, but this is an obvious baseline.

Going for WB first without a 3h tile isn't "having to do it"; It's making the wrong play."play the map" as they used to say.

Skip Hunting for the moment.; Ag--&gt;BW times perfectly with the worker farming the corn and then moving to the forested wines.Fastest settler is Worker--WB (use forested hill until corn farm completes and at size 2 until wb completes)--> Settler.With no barbs it's risky but not insanely so to skip the warrior. If so, a city can be founded on t27 on the hill 1N of the copper with the capital doing a 2-1 whip of the 2nd workboat and regrowing the same turn. Worker has 2t into the mine on the formerly forested grass hill or a road if wheel is taken as third tech.&nbsp; Note that this city does require roads on the grass hill and the wines for a trade connection. Worker can complete that road t28 and the copper mine t33 or copper mine t30. I would favour mining the copper and forgoing the commerce in this case, it's a high commerce start so the hammers and security can be prioritized.&nbsp; <br><br>Then hit up hunting and AH. T28 they'd have 2 cities with 3 pop working a riverside corn and two 5f/3 commerce tiles and copper secured within borders.

[Erwin]

Yes, if you're comfortable skipping warrior and going T2 or T3 settler, then there's no point going hunting. The other downside of that approach is that it uses both of the capital forests, but it most likely is worth it to get such an explosive start.

[Thoth]

Warrior delays settler by a turn or two. I think it would be worth the risk in this case, but I wouldn't commit one way or the other until the WB finishes.

I haven't simmed it out, but growing to 4 and 2 pop whipping the settler with Imperialistic is also an option. Might want a mine before the second chop in that case. And do a bit of queue swapping to ensure overflow from WB and the hammers from the second chop go into the settler for the Imp bonus.

OTOH, it's a lazy Saturday and I'm bored so .....

[Thoth]

Settler at 3 with 1 pop whip is one turn slower to settle than settler at 2 with no whip and no revolt pre-settler.

But the second worker and second settler are faster and there is the opportunity to have a completed trade connection on the turn 2nd city is founded. Tradeoff is delayed access to copper.

So if you want copper fastest, setter at 2. If you want fastest 3rd city, settler whipped at 3 with 2 chops is the way.

[Thoth]

I am thinking about using the 2 forests pretty quickly, perhaps with our second worker chopping into our 3rd settler before we build any real military.

I don't think Amicola and I agree on what "pretty quickly" means.

[Thoth]

Yes, if you're comfortable skipping warrior and going T2 or T3 settler, then there's no point going hunting. The other downside of that approach is that it uses both of the capital forests, but it most likely is worth it to get such an explosive start.

I got a little bored....

7 cities, 7 metal units, 2 netted seafood with workboat on hand to net island fish t60.

Only 2 workers but that goes up to 7 (and could go up to 8 if desired) by t65 or so. It can be improved on.

</p>

[superdeath]

Yes, if you're comfortable skipping warrior and going T2 or T3 settler, then there's no point going hunting. The other downside of that approach is that it uses both of the capital forests, but it most likely is worth it to get such an explosive start.

I got a little bored....

7 cities, 7 metal units, 2 netted seafood with workboat on hand to net island fish t60.

Only 2 workers but that goes up to 7 (and could go up to 8 if desired) by t65 or so.  It can be improved on.

</p>

Nice.


I really cannot wait for Mackoti to see that he moved away from their Silver.

[Thoth]

Yes, if you're comfortable skipping warrior and going T2 or T3 settler, then there's no point going hunting. The other downside of that approach is that it uses both of the capital forests, but it most likely is worth it to get such an explosive start.

I got a little bored....

7 cities, 7 metal units, 2 netted seafood with workboat on hand to net island fish t60.

Only 2 workers but that goes up to 7 (and could go up to 8 if desired) by t65 or so.&nbsp; It can be improved on.

<p></p>

Nice.


I really cannot wait for Mackoti to see that he moved away from their Silver.

The island city will still be waiting for him. Settling it too early is a mistake given how tight this map is.
Mackoti gained himself a solid positional advantage for the land grab phase with his move inland.

[superdeath]

Yes, if you're comfortable skipping warrior and going T2 or T3 settler, then there's no point going hunting. The other downside of that approach is that it uses both of the capital forests, but it most likely is worth it to get such an explosive start.

I got a little bored....

7 cities, 7 metal units, 2 netted seafood with workboat on hand to net island fish t60.

Only 2 workers but that goes up to 7 (and could go up to 8 if desired) by t65 or so.&nbsp; It can be improved on.

<p></p>

Nice.


I really cannot wait for Mackoti to see that he moved away from their Silver.

The island city will still be waiting for him.  Settling it too early is a mistake given how tight this map is.
Mackoti gained himself a solid positional advantage for the land grab phase with his move inland.

True, but i was more just pointing to his "where is a metal happy/fur/ect" than anything else.