American Politics Discussion Thread

[ipecac]

The definition of tribe identity in Northern China changed frequently - you can read about the way Qing officials manipulated tribe identity in the wake of the Dzungar genocide. The selection of "56 nationalities" in china is a clear classification of state-approved and non-state-approved nationality.

Ethnic hatred existed one millennium before any of this bureaucratic stuff.

Oh, and if you think the invasion of Iraq/Lybia was done to spread western values in some perverted Kulturkampf, you're much more stupid than I thought. Again, you're clearly the political equivalent of a child if you are buying the fact that any of these invasions were done for the purpose of spreading democracy. Destabilization of the middle-east is beneficial to maintain right-wing hegemony at home, and a calculated play by the military-industrial complex. It's what every empire does, and both a political and economic action.

Try to think a little deeper. There must be some level of consent in a supposed democracy, those wars worked because there was enough domestic support for the excuse of 'spreading western values'. After that, people got sick of it and therefore Assad is still alive.

[ipecac]

Again, how can you be so naive as to buy into this pure rhetoric? Trump was a con-artist and narcissist who has done everything for money and fame.

The average billionaire grandfather doesn't change his habits of just buying politicians. He stepped into the political fray for little benefit and high cost, there was something deeper behind it.

Trump enacted typical, neo-conservative policies throughout his administration. Look at the facts and the legislation.

How naive. Enacted policy has little to do with Trump and largely stems from personnel in the bureaucracy. Neocons mostly got what they wanted despite Trump, if Bernie won the neolibs would override him and do whatever they want.

[GeneralKilCavalry]

The definition of tribe identity in Northern China changed frequently - you can read about the way Qing officials manipulated tribe identity in the wake of the Dzungar genocide. The selection of "56 nationalities" in china is a clear classification of state-approved and non-state-approved nationality.

Ethnic hatred existed one millennium before any of this bureaucratic stuff.

Oh, and if you think the invasion of Iraq/Lybia was done to spread western values in some perverted Kulturkampf, you're much more stupid than I thought. Again, you're clearly the political equivalent of a child if you are buying the fact that any of these invasions were done for the purpose of spreading democracy. Destabilization of the middle-east is beneficial to maintain right-wing hegemony at home, and a calculated play by the military-industrial complex. It's what every empire does, and both a political and economic action.

Try to think a little deeper. There must be some level of consent in a supposed democracy, those wars worked because there was enough domestic support for the excuse of 'spreading western values'. After that, people got sick of it and therefore Assad is still alive.

No one is born with racial identity. It is imposed. This, again, is a fact of sociology.

And bureaucracies have existed for thousands of years, surely you would know that bit of Chinese wisdom. So have socially-imposed, fluid racial constructs. Just look at how Mongol identity was constructed and their origin myths.

Consent in democracy is manufactured, it's even the name of a book, "Manufactured Consent". And it is a supposed democracy, not anything more. The Obama administration which was elected, partially, on a mandate to get troops out of the middle east did the exact opposite because of the state apparatus. The idea that western values need to be spread is not an innate idea in the brain of some midwesterner. It's what the media, government, schools, newspapers, etc. have told him is necessary.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/rally...-iraq-war/

[Jowy]

Ipecac what are your thoughts on Tiananmen Square Massacre?

[GeneralKilCavalry]

Again, how can you be so naive as to buy into this pure rhetoric? Trump was a con-artist and narcissist who has done everything for money and fame.

The average billionaire grandfather doesn't change his habits of just buying politicians. He stepped into the political fray for little benefit and high cost, there was something deeper behind it.

Trump enacted typical, neo-conservative policies throughout his administration. Look at the facts and the legislation.

How naive. Enacted policy has little to do with Trump and largely stems from personnel in the bureaucracy. Neocons mostly got what they wanted despite Trump, if Bernie won the neolibs would override him and do whatever they want.

The president can exert control over the proposed budget reports to congress. He welcomed far-reaching tax cuts and never went forward on a single one of his campaign proposals that fall under the so-called "populist" category. This is why in 2020 the middle class, 30k-90k income shifted dramatically back to Biden, while the rich shifted comfortably back to the republican party. His obsession with destroying Obamacare and environmental protections to "save coal" were his choices.

And at the end of the day, Trump can veto any bill by congress. He could've vetoed republican tax cuts on the rich, he could have vetoed the tax reform that has simplified the tax code to the point where working-class families are unable to make any of the deductions they used to, drastically increasing taxes.

Also, killing an Iranian general on a whim was his choice, and entirely in the sphere of neocon actions.

Sounds like you just want to defend a fellow "race realist" or whatever.

[Serdoa]

What is the point you actually try to make ipecac? That all others are stupid? That racism is ok because it existed always?

[civac2]

The idea that western values should be spread is an elite concept. (And of course at heart it is a rationalisation). It does resonate a bit with the general populace as they deem their own way of life superior to that of others but I doubt they would try to impose it if left to their own devices.

Regarding the broader debate, I think ipecac has it right. Yes, the power that be often stoke ethnic animosities for their own benefit, however, they play on attidudes that are very common, almost universal.

[ipecac]

The president can exert control over the proposed budget reports to congress. He welcomed far-reaching tax cuts and never went forward on a single one of his campaign proposals that fall under the so-called "populist" category. This is why in 2020 the middle class, 30k-90k income shifted dramatically back to Biden, while the rich shifted comfortably back to the republican party. His obsession with destroying Obamacare and environmental protections to "save coal" were his choices.

And at the end of the day, Trump can veto any bill by congress. He could've vetoed republican tax cuts on the rich, he could have vetoed the tax reform that has simplified the tax code to the point where working-class families are unable to make any of the deductions they used to, drastically increasing taxes.

Realpolitik: to stop Obamacare from being compulsory, one of his popular campaign promises, he made a deal with the republicans.

Also, killing an Iranian general on a whim was his choice

That's an interesting assumption.

Sounds like you just want to defend a fellow "race realist" or whatever.

lmao more than 1 billion chinese are 'race realists', I don't need to defend Trump. You're looking for an opponent that doesn't exist here.

[ipecac]

Ipecac what are your thoughts on Tiananmen Square Massacre?

A slightly bloody moment, relative to the rest of Chinese history.

[ipecac]

No one is born with racial identity. It is imposed. This, again, is a fact of sociology.

How are they still hung up on 100% nature vs 100% nurture? Mature a little, ffs.