[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[roland of gilead]

yeah well worth a look.

i also considered you getting one to take some stuff for denial purposes if you get it early ish. I could then convert you away i think but makes that harder of course.

need to play all that by ear.

[roland of gilead]

what is the best way to upload screen shots?

[suboptimal]

I opened a free account on imgur.com and I think CMF uses the same hosting service. The key is to select "Images" from the username dropdown so you're not creating public-facing "posts", then use the "direct link" as the link to the image here.

[roland of gilead]

been doing more testing and it's clear if i go mad wonder wise i leave myself wide open on defense. will need to prioritise and get the ones needed and mop up later perhaps anything still available and value adding.

definitely want the wonder pantheon unless something awesome opens up.

Great wall if we get a stretch of the right land is awesome for gold then culture. Castles a key tech for me.

Golden ages are difficult and vital need to really look at that. always possible for china but might involve wonder pushing when i don't quite want to.

the +4 faith from every wonder is actually best for china but not the team and only the team matters.

Taking defender of the faith is definitely sub optimal mid term. If we take that i need to push for the free apostles.

some of how i do depends on whether people are prepared to take useless pantheons and beliefs to deny me. thats meh costs them costs me.

we can worry about beliefs nearer the time. If we don't get stone it is very different to if we do.

Govt Plaza is big for me. free builders but mostly the govenor titles.

going to want to push that in my second or 3rd city

[suboptimal]

I think prioritizing the useful ones (I think I listed them 5-6 pages ago) and then backfilling is the way to go. The tourism could be used to lay the groundwork for a likely ill-fated attempt at a cultural victory () if we get hemmed in on the seas. Primary goal is to try to get naval dominance but need the backup plan just the same.

For religion I think Choral Music is #1, Work Ethic is #2 for follower beliefs combined with China converting one Indonesian city with a Holy Site. Great Wall along coastal tiles could be interesting...

For settlement & expansion we can run a bit of a farmers' gambit since land invasion is unlikely except by barbarians. My plan is Warrior -> Settler, find & beeline Early Empire and try to get out two more settlers with Colonization, working on Holy Sites and one or two more units and a builder in the interim.

[roland of gilead]

yeah the goal is to get to armys armadas etc first.

i can't buy sea units with faith even with grand masters chapel unfortunately. I may be providing most of the land army.

what turn do you thing we will see frigates hit the seas.

there is a point around turn 100 where i can just spam wonders with little impact on whatever else is being built. free builder every 2-3 turns from monumantality and 2 wonders per builder.

one of us should open with a builder to get some of the eurekas done. irrigation masonry whatever else can be done.

also slinger to get archery hopefully.

i did worker to settler to monument last run there and it certainly gives you a good start. then onto 2 more with colonisation.

if you have a run of grassland hills you can get 2 food 6 gold 4 culture 1 production tiles.

if you build round an erupted volcano you can get all sorts of yields.

[suboptimal]

It's hard to predict when we'd see frigates - that's going to be determined by where Square Rigging shows up in the tree, what the structure of the tree is, the various prerequisites and how fast people can find it. In PBEM 14 I was able to have feudalism, stirrups and jong all by Turn 100 but that was Nan Madol and fixed research trees.

Regarding eurekas/inspirations I think we should post screenshots of the trees every time we find out something "new" about the tree structure. Better than trying to describe where things are. Outside of Astrology (which we both need to beeline), Sailing (which I'll hopefully find when I settle my capital) and the State Property & Early Empire civics (which are important for early Pingala promotions) we should figure out how to divide and conquer tree once we see the structure.

One thing that's occurred to me - Woden/Ljublana might have an early game strategy of biremes and longships. They're both CS 35, both available at Sailing and given the possible length of time before anything more potent comes around there's a chance that they will attempt to wreck everyone early. We need to be cognizant of that fact - early Masonry by both of us should also be a priority as walls will slow that down (but not stop it completely).

[roland of gilead]

Yeah they definitely will.

And agreed on the tree.

My intention is still to settle off the coast but harbor etc will still be vulnerable as well as coast tiles.

Are bimarines and longships ocean faring?

[suboptimal]

Biremes are not ocean-faring, longships are. A reasonable expectation about the map setup is that all land masses and opponents will be reachable via coastal waterways. All prior map setups that put opponents on different continents, even the "continents" maps, connected the landmasses with coast.

[roland of gilead]

yeah was wondering about that.

we will need to be ready. you obviously have that bit of extra strength defending coast. Another tick for defender of the faith as well when we come to choose.

essentially either would allow us to match a bireme and longship.

hopefully they pick an easier target.

though common sense has you target the biggest threat.