[ NO PLAYERS ] French Vanilla is the best Vanilla Icecream

[Cornflakes]

I think it's a little soft, but I'm sure we've reloaded less. If we can get it done quickly then it doesn't cause anyone a problem, and while I think AT would be fine with it it's probably not fair to ask him to make a judgement. I say reload quick.

don't ask AT, he does not have enough information. Just reload quick.

[Charriu]

Guess what it's already T50. Time to look at some data. As always you can find all the data here: Tracking PB56

Before I start with the actual numbers let me shortly summarize the last 50 turns:

• Giraflorens was the only one that moved their capitol inland. They soon started a so far minor skirmish against Lazteuq
  
• NobleHelium is about to swallow El Grillo/AT
  
• Ruff_Hi gambled for early religion, got it and got a bonus pink dot for that from vanrober.
  
• All the others are developing fairly peaceful so far.
  

Two more things before we go into the numbers. Here the city count as of T50

1. vanrober = 4
   
2. Mjmd = 4
   
3. civac = 4
   
4. NobleHelium = 3
   
5. Lazteuq = 3
   
6. Giraflorens = 3
   
7. Amicalola = 3
   
8. Mr. Cairo = 2
   
9. Jowy = 2
   
10. Ruff_Hi = 2
    
11. El Grillo/AT = 2
    

And here the score as of T50

1. Giraflorens = 158
   
2. vanrober = 147
   
3. Lazteuq = 137
   
4. Ruff_Hi = 131
   
5. NobleHelium = 130
   
6. El Grillo/AT = 129
   
7. Mjmd = 127
   
8. civac = 126
   
9. Jowy = 122
   
10. Amicalola = 121
    
11. Mr. Cairo = 113
    

Total Commerce

Remember this is only the sum of all worked commerce yield tiles + trade yield + anything else that gives extra commerce yield. Not included are any specialists providing beakers or gold or anything other that gives gold directly like shrines. As of T50 we have the following ranking between players

Current TotalCommerce

1. vanrober (PRO) = 26
   
2. civac = 26
   
3. Amicalola (FIN) = 25
   
4. Lazteuq (PRO) = 23
   
5. Jowy (PRO) = 21
   
6. Giraflorens = 20
   
7. Mjmd (AGG) = 19
   
8. NobleHelium (FIN) = 18
   
9. Ruff_Hi (FIN,PRO) = 18
   
10. Mr. Cairo = 17
    
11. El Grillo/AT = 16
    

Remember that these are the first turns in which we see more fluctuation in the current total commerce section. That's why we quickly turn to the cumulated TotalCommerce

1. Amicalola (FIN) = 797
   
2. Ruff_Hi (FIN,PRO) = 745
   
3. civac = 732
   
4. Lazteuq (PRO) = 725
   
5. vanrober (PRO) = 708
   
6. Jowy (PRO) = 706
   
7. El Grillo/AT = 680
   
8. Giraflorens = 664
   
9. Mjmd (AGG) = 647
   
10. NobleHelium (FIN) = 620
    
11. Mr. Cairo = 594
    

Once again we see that seafood start + FIN results in overall good commerce output in the beginning. Especially better then PRO. That Noble is lower is just because he didn't work his seafood that much, I guess. That Amicalola is up here is most likely due to his lake-seafood start. (As always) the big mystery here is Mr. Cairo, because he doesn't report so much.


Financial Bonus

Next we look at the actual Financial Bonus. As a disclaimer, here I collected all the extra commerce a player (would) have gained if he was working Financial tiles. For example if you worked a coast tile you normally gain 2 commerce and 3 commerce with FIN. In this case my tool notes down 1 extra commerce. You will also find that I am tracking the CtH implemenation of Financial as well as the normal BtS implemenation for comparison. I'm skipping the current turn number for this time, because the differences are marginal. So let's go straight to the cumulated numbers:

Looking at the cumulated turn numbers for CtH first:

1. Amicalola (FIN) = 79
   
2. Ruff_Hi (FIN,PRO) = 78
   
3. Lazteuq (PRO) = 62
   
4. Mjmd (AGG) = 45
   
5. El Grillo/AT = 40
   
6. Jowy (PRO) = 35
   
7. civac = 18
   
8. NobleHelium (FIN) = 5
   
9. vanrober (PRO) = 0
   
10. Giraflorens = 0
    
11. Mr. Cairo = 0
    

Hey, Tarkeel's guess is pretty good. Here we can clearly see who worked seafood tiles in the beginning and who not. Ok let's compare this to the BtS implementation. The delta towards CtH is in parenthesis)

1. Amicalola (FIN) = 97 (18)
   
2. Ruff_Hi (FIN,PRO) = 78 (0)
   
3. Lazteuq (PRO) = 62 (0)
   
4. El Grillo/AT = 60 (20)
   
5. Mjmd (AGG) = 45 (0)
   
6. Jowy (PRO) = 35 (0)
   
7. civac = 31 (13)
   
8. Giraflorens = 23 (23)
   
9. NobleHelium (FIN) = 5 (0)
   
10. vanrober (PRO) = 0 (0)
    
11. Mr. Cairo = 0 (0)
    

Not that many differences between both implementation, which is mainly because the bonus on water is the same for both.

Protective Bonus

This early in the game we only have domestic trade routes to take care of so obviously we don't see any differences between CtH's 1.4 and 1.3 version of PRO. Just as with FIN I'm going straight to the cumulated Bonus, because the current commerce values are very low.

1. vanrober (PRO) = 64
   
2. civac = 54
   
3. Lazteuq (PRO) = 51
   
4. Mjmd (AGG) = 51
   
5. Giraflorens = 46
   
6. NobleHelium (FIN) = 36
   
7. Jowy (PRO) = 32
   
8. Mr. Cairo = 32
   
9. Amicalola (FIN) = 12
   
10. Ruff_Hi (FIN,PRO) = 10
    
11. El Grillo/AT = 4
    

vanrober's very early second city looks to be a good decision for his PRO trait. The other important thing to notice here is that PRO is worse then FIN on a start with seafood.

Misc

Well we are almost at the end of this report. Some more tidbits

• The AGG isn't generating that much (<5 in cumulated value). That's no wonder, because unit maintenance is a thing for later turns.
  
• Same goes for ORG, but hey vanrober, Mjmd and civac would already have made 4-5 commerce here
  
• I stopped tracking the tech progress of Mysticism and Hunting. Mainly because I'm pretty sure that I leave both as they are right now.

But I started tracking a new value: Used labor civics. My goal here is to see how much slavery, feudalism and caste system are used. But for now this only gives us the turns the players switched into slavery:

1. Amicalola (FIN) = 20
   
2. Mjmd (AGG) = 29
   
3. NobleHelium (FIN) = 29
   
4. civac = 30
   
5. Lazteuq (PRO) = 32
   
6. Jowy (PRO) = 33
   
7. Mr. Cairo = 34
   
8. El Grillo/AT = 35
   
9. Giraflorens = 39
   
10. Ruff_Hi (FIN,PRO) = 44
    
11. vanrober (PRO) = 46
    

[superdeath]

turn 46 swapping into slavery? Man thats late.

[Lewwyn]

I wonder how many times Henge will switch hands.

[Lewwyn]

at Serdoa C&Ding Amica’s strength and noble trying to get enforced peace. Of course hard headed Amica can’t imagine that noble doesn’t want to fight him immediately and assumes the worst that noble wants to crush him in 15 turns. Like what? You just explained the futility of your attack, your neighbor AT just got killed and there is a ton of land now available for settling around AT’s old land and you want to fight and stagnate your growth more? View this as an opportunity to get more free land via settling that you wouldn’t have gotten otherwise!

[Erwin]

I cant help but feel that this game is quite heavily shaped by hostilities in previous games (PB54 and PB55). I think that it's disappointing, but understandable.

[Cornflakes]

I cant help but feel that this game is quite heavily shaped by hostilities in previous games (PB54 and PB55). I think that it's disappointing, but understandable.

I think this is more a case of “I whipped an army to counter the Stonehenge culture bomb, now I need to use it for ... something”.

EDIT: I cross posted with the latest more descriptive post from Amica (even though it was posted before your post ). Looks like there is some merit to the point about creative+monument culture pressure. Cold War might be the best overall path here. Don’t accept peace, keep the stack in site, but don’t actually attack. Force Noble to divert forces and slow down final conquest of AT, while putting actual energy into settling.

[Erwin]

Yes, I agree with you regarding Amica's actions. Continuing a cold war could be a reasonable choice. However, I feel like his thought process could have been quite different if it was some player other than Noble. But its just speculation on my part, no way to know for certain and player reputations do play a role, in general.

[Lewwyn]

I cant help but feel that this game is quite heavily shaped by hostilities in previous games (PB54 and PB55). I think that it's disappointing, but understandable.

I think this is more a case of “I whipped an army to counter the Stonehenge culture bomb, now I need to use it for ... something”.

EDIT: I cross posted with the latest more descriptive post from Amica (even though it was posted before your post ). Looks like there is some merit to the point about creative+monument culture pressure. Cold War might be the best overall path here. Don’t accept peace, keep the stack in site, but don’t actually attack. Force Noble to divert forces and slow down final conquest of AT, while putting actual energy into settling.

I think that might be good. I don’t like Amica’s self righteous have to save the game reasoning since it’s A) still early and B) a thin defense of his I’ve gotta do something with this army. He claims there’s no land but if he took peace and sent his army up to ATs cap he might be able to steal it, settle all of ATs north and even build a galley and steal ATs island. There are a lot of possibilities beyond, smash my army futilely into noble. 

Also I hope I’m not saying too much in his thread, I’m just trying to suss out his logic and maybe get him to think about the situation. The dude only has 3 cities and he’s IMP. He hasn’t even settled his pig yet and he’s complaining he has no land to settle!

[superdeath]

Looking at the pb56 pbspy.. man Ruff needs to logout sooner.