[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[suboptimal]

Turn 13

Warriors move. The view:




Southern warrior will head SW next turn. Up north, a bit zoomed in:




That flat tundra to the NE of my warrior is coastal – it’s in the level 3 flood zone. There’s a river in the fog 2E of the warrior – it disappears into the map graphic in such a way to suggest that it follows the body arc (cool coincidence) but in reality I can’t see anything past the middle of that plains hill. I also don’t know if it connects up with that river to the south – normally I’d say these are two different rivers but who knows? (The TBS knows ) The flat plains 2E is also breathtaking in appeal so there’s likely forests and coast over that way. The presence of the rice up here is a good sign. I’ll cross the river east again and then likely move onto the other plains hill. I’m hesitant to dotmap up here until I see what’s to the SE (and on the coast).

Capital grows next turn; the new population will work the plains hill forest for three turns and then switch over to the truffles for generation. Settler on track for completion on Turn 20. I should have my pantheon next turn.

[roland of gilead]

Pantheon is the exciting bit. Come on earth goddess.

[suboptimal]

If I do get Earth Goddess my capital will be pulling in 8 per turn until the settler gets done. Galleys are 130 to purchase, so somewhere around Turn 30 I should be able to purchase my first one. The northern city will be starting at 4 per turn and I'll be founding that city on Turn 25. I should have two galleys out by Turn 40 or so, which will tell us where Shipbuilding is.

[suboptimal]

Did some start analysis for three city locations. This assumes I've picked up Earth Goddess next turn. Population and yields through first 20 turns after founding, assuming no buildings or builder improvements.

Location A - North Coast between Tea and Stone, work diamonds first, stone second: 2 population, 2 per turn with 23 in the bank, total yields of 52 16 9.6 60 76
Districts: +3 Holy Site SW of diamonds (adds back appeal lost to diamond mine), +2 Campus SW of tea
Note: The tea will likely be breathtaking appeal once the barbarian camp is cleared.

Location B - Plains, W-SW of capital truffles, work wheat first and NE truffles second: 2 population, 1 per turn with 13 in the bank, 76, 16, 9.6, 36, 76
Districts: +3 Holy Site SW of NW truffles, +2 Campus SE of truffles

Location C - Tundra, NW of marsh rice, work rice first, 12 tundra or tundra deer second and third: 3 population, 2 per turn with 17 in the bank, 48, 22, 13.2, 48
Districts: +3 Holy Site SW of rice, likely +4 Campus SE of there (NW of geothermal vent)

For reference, the capital has a +3 Holy Site 2W. Alternatively I could put a +2 Campus there and a +2 Holy Site SE of there. There's no good spot for a government plaza based on this dotmap. Therefore I'm debating skipping that build altogether, possibly putting it west of the truffles as the city's third district.

Generally speaking, chopping trees will not be a good idea for my purposes. Most of it is flat land but the deforestation would reduce appeal and this income.

Initial plan for first 50 turns of game (no policies accounted for):

Capital goes Settler (T20) -> Builder (T28) -> Settler (T39) -> Settler (T52), improving the rice first, fish second and truffles third. Districts get placed when pop and territory allows, won't be built until after third settler.
Settle A on Turn 25 with first settler. Buy second ring tile for district placement when permits.
Settle C with second settler on Turn 44, start a monument. Place district to the south when and Bronze Working permit.
Third settler will be overseas or for an as-yet uncovered Location 'D' off to the east.

If we assume that all starts are roughly the same we will have an early naval advantage. Once C grows to 2 population (Turn 56) I'd be making 18 per turn. That's good enough for a galley every 8 turns.

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Given the food poor nature of the starting areas I think we need to reconsider our belief choices for your religion. Feed the World is what we should be after as that will provide both of us with the one resource that appears to be lacking at this start: . The fact is that all known city locations outside of our capitals will struggle to grow beyond 3-4 population even with a granary and if you assume that all start locations are balanced in the same manner, having the unique potential for any city with a Holy Site to support another 3-4 population is huge. With Feed the World each Holy Site could directly support 3 extra population; adding Gurdwaras on top of that provides another direct 1.5 population support.

My initial district builds in all cities will be Campus districts once I complete Writing. If you land Feed the World or Choral Music then I'll build Holy Sites either first or second, depending on the city. A couple of Commercial Hubs will be important for both of us for trade so if we don't land either of those beliefs I'll likely skip Holy Sites so that I can get trade routes running.

[roland of gilead]

TURN 14

It's a quiet one. Spear follows so slinger retreats. I ponder if the spear discovering the cap will cause the camp to erupt but am confident that's not how it works. Warrior is heading west of capital.

[roland of gilead]

I will do similar analysis to you for cities 2, 3 and 4.

Mine will come online a bit later I think as I have to build a holy site at capital next. no point doing a worker given it could only improve the wheat. so off to sailing I go while cap does holy site probably into worker for pearls and turtles.

I am not so sure about feed the world with the new amenities rules. I still like Choral music. you can always build farms and I have 2 wonders providing food. Culture is more difficult to come by.

Those amenities rules are harsh mid to end game.

It doesn't look like anyone has found a natural wonder yet does it?

[suboptimal]

From an amenities standpoint we've got three land luxury resources available, plus one turtles and one pearls. From a building standpoint getting all our of cities to 4 pop reasonably quickly should be the goal, then we pick and choose which ones get bigger.

In looking at your part of the start it looks like the Stonehenge city should be able to get to 4 or 5 population without too much difficulty. I'll be curious to see how your analysis comes up. I'd be planning for no more than 2 districts per city right now.

You make a good point about farms but even with them city growth will be slow.

I haven't seen any era score increases, so no one's found a natural wonder. Everyone knows where Astrology is but we're the only ones with the eureka.

[roland of gilead]

yeah that is surprising. Perhaps they went builder first and have scouted less perhaps the islands aren't so similar.

we found it real early

[roland of gilead]

in my current Sp i dropped from 160 to 120 science when the new amenities came in with 11 or 12 cities varying from 6-12 in size.

It is quite a hit maybe a 20% swing for me 10 for you as i could probably hit pleased.

i don't see any cities getting above 10 for me 7 maybe.

We could take the food related building perhaps if still available. Not ruling out feed the world just remain to be convinced.

[suboptimal]

Some back of the envelope calculations:

Capital: Improving only the wheat and turtles you've got enough food to get to 7-9 pop at a reasonable pace. Beyond that you'd need to farm open plains or get to Scientific Theory for the plantations.
Chao Lake: The two 3 locations are quite the luxury - 7 pop should be easy and quick here as long as those tiles are among the first worked.
Amur River: Without any improvements it's 8 turns to 2 pop, 12 turns more to 3 pop and 17 turns after that to 4 population. After 5 population the city is at a 1 surplus. A wheat farm and fishing boat speed the process.
Gobi Desert: The only way the city grows beyond pop 3 is to farm the floodplains and keep them farmed. If any wonders get plopped down on the floodplains this city stalls out at 2-3 population.

Feed the World would solve these food crunches though it would take still time to get the Holy Sites built.

Your point about culture being difficult to obtain is true and a good counterargument.

My area's got quite the dilemma - there are no farm triangles available and many of the open areas pose a farm vs district question. Perhaps I should also look at settling that northern location SW of the diamonds; it's off the coast but has wheat access.