[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[roland of gilead]

[suboptimal]

That makes sense....everyone should be getting their first civics in the next turn or two. Is the cost of Mysticism 40 or 50 culture?

Right now I only get to a pantheon on T40. I think that gets down to T39 if I can complete Mysticism before T36, which lets you complete it and get God King slotted. Alternatively what's the cost of a policy change? It might be worth buying the change after the Holy Site completes in order to get God King slotted....that's what's slowing the pantheon down. Buying in God King at T28 gets you the pantheon somewhere around T37/38 and the religion right after it.

[roland of gilead]

Need to test some more. But a lot depends how many charges I use on stonehenge. Only got 5 to play with really.

Need to buy 2 tiles and a builder.

Also note to myself I need to go after mining next so I can chop the woods for Stonehenge.

[suboptimal]

What two tiles do you need to buy? I know you need one for the Holy Site but what's the second?

[roland of gilead]

Something decent to work at second city. Not absolutely needed but shaves turns off.

[suboptimal]

I assume you're buying the 1/3 tile to the SE of the stone as the second tile? Depending on how the production & builder timing works out you might not need to buy that one for and might be better off getting the truffles there.

I need reminding - two builders = 8 actions. Where are you using the other three? Capital wheat is one. Depending on build times you might want 6 charges into Stonehenge.

One other thing we need to remember - it takes Russia 30 turns to get a Great Prophet after they build their first Lavra, assuming no projects or a shrine. We might not need to rush things too much here.

[roland of gilead]

Yes would be buying the 1.3 plains hill.

We are probably fine as you say.

We knew where to tech to first may have some edge there. I have the turtles for science perhaps another edge.

Then again they could do holy site prayers. Heck if someone has stone at cap they could chop out Stonehenge before me. That would be a huge waste for who ever does it though.

I will do more number crunching I can certainly get the prophet earlier. Does that mean next one costs 120?

Would improve wheat. Turtles and probably truffles. Get us some gold back.

[suboptimal]

Right now our edge is that we have the eureka, which at this stage of the game is worth several turns of time. I took a brief look at PBEM 19 - Ljubljana got his religion on Turn 41 and he was pushing for it. Granted, he knew where Astrology was and researched it first so circumstances are slightly different, but we'll know the race is genuinely on when Russia gets their second tech as that is likely Astrology unless they didn't take Pottery first.

As for prophet costs, no, the next one won't cost 120. All great people have a base cost depending upon their age. The "starting" age of a great person is typically dependent somewhat upon the era of the tech that unlocks either their district (non artsy fartsy types) or their building (the artsy fartsy ones). Base point costs don't increase until either all great people of the current age are claimed or the game age advances and the current one is claimed. IN the case of prophets they will cost 60 points until the game advances to the classical age and the current prophet (likely the third) is taken. At that point the next prophet will be 120 points. There's also an age penalty - if the next great person is from an age more than one ahead of the current game age there's a 20% cost increase, 40% for two ages, etc.

The most I can squeeze out of your situation is 5/turn and that's only after the Holy Site is built (+2), Stonehenge is built (+2) and the prophet points are converted to faith. You can't get more unless you build a shrine but then you won't get the builder out to complete Stonehenge. You can get to 6/turn if you paid to slot God King. If you wanted to do that then sooner is better (but do it after the settler) since it'd give you 10-20 extra faith between the settler and Stonehenge. However, you'd also need to see the effect it has on getting the builder and the Holy Site out. Lots to figure out.

[roland of gilead]

Not sure paying for god king helps. I just get the builder and Stonehenge slower.

Will do some more work on really getting Stonehenge early and holy site. Sacrifice growth by working the plains hill at cap once pop up to 3. See how early I can get it.

Did lubjana do holy site prayers? In pbem 19.

Also I think getting 2nd religion is ok. I think first takes work ethic.

[suboptimal]

Ljublana did not run any projects first. He researched Astrology first (not possible here), completed it on Turn 13, completed a settler out of his capital on Turn 19, finished the Lavra on Turn 23 and a second Lavra in his second city on Turn 29. That got him 2 GPP per turn for 7 turns and then 4 GPP for 12 turns. He didn't need to use prayers since each Lavra provides 2 GPP per turn.

The advantage we have here is that unless Russia's team finds a natural wonder and Russia researched Pottery first we've got a bit of a jump on them. If Russia doesn't run any projects and build two Lavra I'd assume they get a religion roughly 16-22 turns after discovering Astrology.

I'm not going to assume Work Ethic will go to the first religion - given our own debates on Feed the World vs. Choral Music it's possible that one of those beliefs goes first, especially if adjacencies at the other player's Holy Sites/Lavras is low. Work Ethic only shines if you can get high adjacencies via pantheon or civ ability.