Is Famous underpowered?

[Anskiy]

So I was trying hero strategies with various realms, and I was tired of getting low level heroes like Zaldronon, Rakir, Brax etc all the damn time. I picked Famous because I thought the higher starting Fame would help get better heroes early on. The first time around, it seemed promising as it turned up an early Shuri. However, it's been pretty disappointing afterwards, with the second run pulling Serena, the third pulling Brax, and Rakir showing up another time. Is the retort underpowered, or is it just my bad luck?

[Sapher]

Yes, this retort is underpowered. In the early game it is weak because appearing heroes are not only limited by fame but also by a turncount. In the mid/late game it is weak compared to summon hero.

[Suppanut]

I think Famous should reduce turncount limit for strong heroes and mercenary to help get rid its underpower. Or maybe should just remove turncount limit and allow myrran mercenary from the start for famous retort.

[Sir Whiskers]

I agree that Famous seems weak (though that may just be because I haven't developed good hero-centric strategies). Here are a couple ideas for beefing it up:

1) Master of Orion 2 combines the effects of Famous and Charismatic into one choice. Might be too good in CoM, as I think Charismatic is very useful for certain strategies. Still, something to consider.

2) Add a reduction in unrest to Famous. Either a universal -1 unrest in all cities, or a -1 or -2 to interracial unrest, making conquest of other races a bit easier.

edit: A third option is to increase city and/or outpost growth a bit to reflect people wanting to be with that wizard.

[Suppanut]

I think combine and free slot for a new retort would be great idea.

[Seravy]

I think Famous should reduce turncount limit for strong heroes and mercenary to help get rid its underpower. Or maybe should just remove turncount limit and allow myrran mercenary from the start for famous retort.

Maybe I remember wrong but I think there is no turncount limit for heroes hired normally. That's for prisoners.
Only exception being the Ninja.

Edit : checked the CoM 2 source, the turn limit is for prisoners only, it doesn't apply to hiring or summoning heroes.

[Anskiy]

Maybe I remember wrong but I think there is no turncount limit for heroes hired normally. That's for prisoners.
Only exception being the Ninja.

Edit : checked the CoM 2 source, the turn limit is for prisoners only, it doesn't apply to hiring or summoning heroes.

So was I just unlucky then? What is the approximate chance of getting a decent(read: non 0 fame) hero as your first hire with Famous?

[Suppanut]

Maybe I remember wrong but I think there is no turncount limit for heroes hired normally. That's for prisoners.
Only exception being the Ninja.

Edit : checked the CoM 2 source, the turn limit is for prisoners only, it doesn't apply to hiring or summoning heroes.

If that so, I think famous should give bias toward visit higher quality heroes and higher tiers mercenary units to make effect of famous more noticable.

[teelaurila]

Another way to look at this would be that I'd bet charismatic is actually very strong if one is looking at the % of games winnable at very high difficulties: The ability to control alliances and wars is huge. It is, however, often overlooked, as people prefer to try out their favorite builds against different conditions, rather than try to win the max % of starts.

But taken that either charismatic, or luck at the draw of opponents, is needed to win at high difficulty, one could look at famous with charismatic already given. Even then it might need some work, especially to make it a bit less random, but perhaps not quite that much.

[jhsidi]

I've been disappointed with Famous each of the 3-4 times I've chosen it in CoM2. Of course, that comes down to chance, because the retort is basically bumping % chances that are very low to start with.

Merging it with Charismatic seems like a good idea. However, you could also just fix the skill so that it's guaranteed to be useful.

I'd suggest doing so by fixing the underlying mechanic of getting hero / mercenary / item offers. To my understanding, these all have a flat chance that doesn't change from turn to turn (unless you gain Fame). As a result I've had games where I almost never get offers, and other games where I get a lot. So, I feel it would play better if those chances were smoothed out by adding a per-turn increase in the chance of getting an offer, which resets as soon as you get any offer.

Let's say the base chance is 0.5%, increasing by 0.05% each turn. Famous could raise the per-turn increase in chance by 0.15% instead.

On another note -- I think part of the problem with heroes is that some are trash. I'm pretty much always disappointed when I get Brax or Johann or the Noble (blanking on his name); they're just awful, unless you play a buffing strategy, which is only one school of magic. Anyone else feel like these early heroes should be improved with some sort of passive? All of the magic-using heroes seem vastly more powerful.