[Mjmd #56 no players] One ring to find them

[Mjmd]

Just doing my thing over here. Settled 11th city south of capital, which while a current drain will overall help insure good tiles are worked in that area and will pay for itself eventually. Also likely Maoi city as mentioned. I'm not exactly sure where the GP for my 1st golden age is coming from, but maybe here? Problem of course being that would be quite a delay (which with heavily whipped empire is maybe fine). Would mean I have to develop it instead of whipping it heavily as well. I would like Cumae to work more river cottages once its borders pop / done getting current GP.



Whole bunch of random domestic things:
-3 pop whipped the library in Cumae last turn for the extra hammers and to get math 1 turn sooner. I estimate IW will be about 16 turns from now. The scientists being worked are providing about half the needed beakers.
-New city of Sat working copper this turn while Rome regrows and then will work fish until it 1 pop whips.
-NOOB question alert!!! Is it better to 1 pop whip as soon as possible or grow to next size and then whip down. I'm afraid I've been under wrong assumption entire time. See norther city of Arp.
-Hoping to build both granaries in Ravenna and Necropolis before next pop growth after current. I kind of want libraries in both. Necropolis has not only the important vision hill but the wine there I would like long term. Getting culture to double fast would be nice. I think I'll still have growth time pre praets.
-Debating slow building or whipping a worker in Antium in a few turns. I'll prob decide based on how long it takes to build. 

International news:
-Biggest news for me is that Cairo took and I think resettled a city off of Civac. The timing in pbspy was close, but this early I can't imagine he spent a ton of time looking at the city. In any case just hoping not a lot of shock axes created.
-Gira took a city back off of Jowy while I was online last night. Lost and then gained a great general. Jowy is in trouble...... I'm hoping the war between Cairo and Civac is hot. Civac did do 4 one pop whips (along with two 2 pop whips, but could have been a settler / worker). Civac declared war on Jowy to move his work boat through and definitely sees the empty border city near him.
-As tempting as it was to watch whatever is happening between Jowy and Gira I took the opportunity to get open borders with Civac to scout his lands.
-Vanrober did respond to diplo message with same. Mig thoughts on open borders with Van (once I get a scout again)?
-Obviously Noble is doing stupid took a second capital expansion things. I'm assuming he just cruises to a win over there, but trying real hard over here.
-Amica is obviously at least somewhat competitive at 8 cities with 2 recent. However, Amica doesn't seem to realize that we have open borders. You can see my rofl sign onto of one of their scouts. It has danced a lot around my border and hasn't gone in yet.
-Hoping someone connects a duplicate happy resource i can trade for eventually. I'm actually tied in happy cap with Noble and Amica, but would LOVE more  happy. There really isn't anything else near me other than monarchy and calendar resources though.

[Miguelito]

perfect storm with our neighbours warring and us getting the land before the army buildup !

- hopefully with growth we can speed IW a little bit over 16t. Else iron will not be connected in time for the maths whips, which would be a shame
- if war vs vanrober is unlikely library in Ravenna makes sense. Can it then start on the next GS already, so we don't have to wait 32 turns after the one in Cumae (well, when would you like a GA? I imagine something like after regrowing from praet whips? It might be that we need a GA to limp to currency). Still doubtful over library in Neapolis, it really isn't a commerce city, so an eventual monument or religion would be enough. Ok, the wine is an argument.
- you are aware that granaries should be finished, if possible, with no more than half full food box, right? But if you are whipping from size 2 I'd wait to get there before. More net output than if you whip right after growing (exception if there is no 2 food tile, not the case here). I'd also grow to size 3 first before leaving good tiles unworked, or if you have to whip to size 1 with a 3 food tile which takes forever, but neither seems to be the case here.
- while laying cottages I think we should plan for a few farms to spread irrigation to our grain ressources later on.
- OB with van... first instinct: good. But the downside is that he'll see us demilitarized on his border and could either get ideas for us, or eat Ruff in peace. It also telegraphs our diplo intentions. Maybe sign shortly before we start whipping out the army?

- btw who founded the religions?

[Mjmd]

T82

I mean I would feel great with my position if Noble didn't just raze a city off of Lazteuq.... Like he needs to be any more ahead. Mind when he spends 1.5 hrs on his turns..... and has who knows else besides Serdoa also helping him. Really really want to be like 1 person away from him instead of opposite side of the map...... Ah well, just have to do my best and fight shark later.

Mind you my best isn't all that impressive, because I did not know this / I am not sure about all the wording:

- you are aware that granaries should be finished, if possible, with no more than half full food box, right? But if you are whipping from size 2 I'd wait to get there before. More net output than if you whip right after growing (exception if there is no 2 food tile, not the case here). I'd also grow to size 3 first before leaving good tiles unworked, or if you have to whip to size 1 with a 3 food tile which takes forever, but neither seems to be the case here.

I uhhhh was not aware! "But if you are whipping from size 2 I'd wait to get there before." are you saying wait until size 3.5? Wondering because Setia and Sat will be in position to whip from 2.5 to 1.5. Setia will have good tiles to work. Sat will not unless you count a mine. Now mind I'm currently the leader in cities and have had two minor wars, so Noble is probably just swimming Shark circles in other areas. In any case I do think I have sweet math set up for Ravenna and Necropolis with growth vs finishing granaries.

I got to double play the turn because Ruff didn't hold it for once. Showing 14 turns for IW and 15 for GS. Now mind my income will almost double next turn from 7gpt to 13gpt just from cities growing back onto cottages. A lot of cities will be growing pre praets as well so I imagine maybe 12 turns? Also the libraries will help a smidge. Now should I road random hills I'm already on in case there is iron there? Probably just not worth right?

Ironically Van's Duns make me want to attack him more because of the culture...... Again I would have to take the capital though for it to be worth more than 2 cities, which against Celts just seems so meh. I'll still hold off on open borders for now.

I think I want to wait on the first golden age for a while, but I should get started on it somewhere...... Problem is most of those somewhere places want to be working river cottages / want to be whipped down for more praets!!!! I plan on using conquest gold to get to currency fyi !

Gira and Jowy made peace. BTW scouting reveals Civac had 4 spears in a walled border city with a 5th spear heading towards Cairo. Now mind you last turn he KNEW Jowy's nearest border city was empty. I would have gotten workers over to start roading pronto for that attack..... Maybe means Cairo war is pretty hot / he is mad. Both of their powers have shot up.

Ruff got Buddhism. Amica got Judaism and I just learned because he switched into it, Hinduism.

[superdeath]

Just pull a pb2 and send aggressive praets half way around the world!

[Mjmd]

Just pull a pb2 and send aggressive praets half way around the world!

Ah NO.

T84 because I saw Mig logged in T83 and the jig is up. I'm building a library in Rome....... I'm only a little sorry. I legit am worried about getting to currency; plus will help with IW. BTW lindonberry or whatever of Vans built a dun before granary.......I mean I get your protective with stone, but you're super annoying Aggressive Rome who really doesn't want to go to war with you PLUS your slowing yourself down. I want you to kill Ruff in a PYFT war........ Also the whole protective Celts and not worth without taking capital thingy. That whole northern border is super unstable as it can be forked easily all over the place, but again I'm aggressive Rome..... does he really want to war with me pre knights?? I doubt it. Use what ya got. 



Cairo and Civac are still at war. Nothing else has happened that i know of.
BTW WTF SD / LURKERS. Just got to Civacs capital. He is 15 tiles away from Jowy and 14 from Cairo. I'm 14 from Van and 10 from Cairo........ I don't expect perfect map checks, but distances to capitals probably should be. Especially as both Civac and Jowy are outters,  which I've already detailed why that is bad. But ya Civac must have settled his full 2nd ring cities towards Ciaro taking his like 1.5 ring. Really really glad Cairo is calling him on it. He could easily have been a runaway along with Noble. I keep expecting a GS to be born for an academy (although his capital is not the greatest for it) along with Civac buildings the mids.

[Miguelito]

About the library in Rome - the city has a lot of good tiles that it shares with others, so perhaps start the second GS (for GA) there? Also helps with research. I would think we don't care for an academy, right?
Still don't like the one in Neapolis, but it's your decision of course. The one in Ravenna is a sad necessity.
So, Lindonberry has a Dun, no granary, and is at size 4 already? Special.

[Mjmd]

I hadn't thought about Rome for the second GS, but perhaps after the first 2 rounds of whips? Shared tiles while whipped down was a main incentive to settle Sat, so might as well make use of it. Sat doesn't have a ton of good tiles to work of its own pre Maoi; although once I get IW it opens up working both beavers which helps (and part of me saying eventually it would pay for itself). Rome doesn't have a ton of food, but should be good enough. Good suggestion.

Neapolis picks up 3 forests worth 10 hammers more each for total of 30/90. It starts fighting for the hill and wine now which is relevant short term and long. Even if I lose the hill eventually, I can decide to open borders for that info. The wine will eventually be 3rd ring for Ravenna as well which will help keep it mine. Very green map and lots of food I'm valuing happy pretty highly. It also grabs the river grassland cow to be shared, which is worth at least a monument so 60/90 hammer are straight justified and then all the secondaries especially the wine I think get it over the top.

Very special, very annoying...... I'm anticipating a 2 pop whip of the gran there. Based on the northern border pop timing I imagine he did the same thing there. (pre post edit; just looked at pbspy and Van did 4!!! two pop whips this turn!!! Now someone new did pick up HBR so that seems more likely than 2 granaries and 2 something else, but could just be coincidence......)

[Mjmd]

Foreign news. Van sent fish for fish. As that was the plan I sent it back without really thinking about it. I then of course was looking around and he has 3!!!! workers for the forest NE of Arp....... So I of course moved all my units there and didn't double play the turn. I sent him a nice diplo message of sheep, fish, corn for copper. Hopefully he can figure it out! Did I overreact for 30 hammers? Maybe maybe. Is he needlessly antagonizing me for 13 hammers? Also yes. He moved his warrior back that has been keeping a tab on my units though. I'm assuming he is actually moving units towards ruff. His power did spike! I am of course bluffing my arse off. I would rather be whipping libraries on that front than spears. Although if I just take the city I don't need the libraries as bad....... But my time isn't quite here yet and I still like the original plan, but man Van is trying really really hard to be annoying. Stupid thing is he will chop 1 turn before my border pops there. Now mind I could have chopped his forest during peace, but I chose not to, partly to avoid bad diplo!!!!

Cairo also made peace with Civac which is unfortunate. I actually meant to send Civac some kind of diplo message to keep him fighting, but I kept forgetting.

[Mjmd]

He called my bluff. Phah. He is world tops in power atm so helps in calling bluffs. He only has had 1 rd of whips too. Lindonberry still hasn't whipped from 4 pop and I'm super confused why he hasn't. It shares most of its good tiles and still doesn't have a granary. He is also mining near Cumae. Nice of him to not cancel the work animations so I don't suspect road, and you know build me a mine or partial. I think my culture will take it before he finishes.

How tempted am I to throw my game over 1 forest. A non zero amount. Its not over 25%, but I am vexxed and he got 13 hammers for vexxing aggressive Rome.....

[Mjmd]

Van war peaced me and then declared on Ruff as expected. I think I'm turning on tech next turn!!!!! So 3 turns to IW and 8 to math. Taking bets on the worst possible iron locations or if SD gave me iron at all......... Even if I have iron already hooked I can't imagine being ready to go before 9 turns from now anyways even if I decide on Van (Its up to like 30% and rising daily). Anyways going to try to have workers in random locations ready to go.

Graphs because empire is still the same and I was already on imgur so might as well post something? Van's color does not show well on the power graph, but he is at the top. He did 5 two pop whips last turn (I think he was top pop prior, because now I am), but one of them was for the granary FINALLY. I kind of expect a library being whipped in his southern city because he finished the mine show in bottom right of screen shot. I should take that tile within a turn or two otherwise.



To note Amica is at 10 cities and should get something from Van invading Ruff. Those pesky border oracle cities ya know , but in this case probably a good thing as I want him to be strong vs Noble. I'm actually surprised Van hasn't settled that deer city; no city needs that much food.... maybe he is going to do a GS as well /shrug. Gira is also recovering well atm although converting to a religion is maybe an indicator of happy problems (Hinduism is spreading even all the way to me that shrine going to be good); Jowy is not recovering well......

Questions / comments / bets on where SD put iron? I'll probably post next T92 with that. I feel a l little bad as no one is reporting except for Van spamming it seems like, but I just don't have a lot going on in my world atm.