[Spoiler] Kaiser has a plan

[roland of gilead]

go for the amenity.

is that where the 12 hammers came from perhaps?

[roland of gilead]

on mines v lumbermills i really meant they are the same but you get the chop. It's more of an early game principal

[Kaiser]

Ok, i went coffee repair first, the good thing is that we keep the builder and can still execute the chop later if we want.

You are right, i need to challenge my lumbermill > mine mindset. I will have a look tomorrow. Turn is played

[roland of gilead]

it depend's what you are doing.

rain forest obviously provides food. but the chop does to and earlier. then you get the production as well.

a lot depends on adjacency appeal. if you are doing earth goddess then it's lumber mills all the way.

the earlier you do it the bigger the payback but there is a cost in builder charges. no point chopping for 27 production on a builder that costs 75 with 3 charges.

early mid game is probably the sweet spot.

BTW did anyone take earth goddess in this game?

[Kaiser]

I dont think so I can confirm next time but I am quite confident that:

- Ichabod took Sacred Path
- Woden took Fertility Rites
- CMF took God of the open Sky
- Suboptimal took Goddess of Festivals

Regarding Lumbermills, we are at the point where Lumbermills should be the better tiles again.

Compare:
Mines bring +1
- add +1 at Apprenticeship
- add +1 at Industrilization
- add +1 in the Ruhr Valley City (GM)

- add +1 at Smart Materials (absolute Endgame)

So a +3 Bonus on tile base yield on hill tiles, +4 in GM, +4 in Endgame

Lumbermills bring +2 + forest 1 or jungle 1
- add +1 at Steel (in 5 turns)

- add +1 at Cybernetics (absolute Endgame)

So as soon as we have Steel, a Lumbermill brings +3 like the mine, but also keeps the yield of the forest or jungle. Cybernetics and Smart Materials come both late enough to be irrelevant.
Certainly the influx of rush or is a big consideration and a very valid argument, but the mine will be strictly worse than the lumbermill it replaces as soon as steel comes in.
That and not delaying the reconnection of Coffee are the two main reasons I wanted to avoid the chop if it is not needed any more, which I do not think it is. Instead we can keep the one charge builder around for repairs.

To be honest I think it is even rare that games go until Steel, where Lumbermills become better, that is probably the reason for the "standard" evaluation. This game might run long and I already see Woden gunning for a Culture victory by abusing his coastline and Renaissance walls.
Our winning condition is more likely a science victory, but concession will be at some point the result if either him or me get close enough to our condition. The only way I see the game ending earlier is Suboptimal making significant gains against us (i.e. razing a core city) which becomes extremly unlikely in 5 turns.
Even if we cannot hold our coast against Suboptimal, we are just slowed back down to slightly better than Woden's tech rate until we get our good Campus spots back up.

GM needs to one-turn a builder soon as there are some improvements near Steve Newton/Cassius which we want to get down soon.

[roland of gilead]

yeah we are past the tipping point to lumber mills. Certainly for rain-forest.

earth godless is situational but often excellent maybe not so much here.

we have good culture a culture win won't be easy. especially when we can close borders etc.

[roland of gilead]

is TOA gone for the amenities?

[Kaiser]

Yeah, it was built early by Ichabod.
Woden finished Collosseum shortly before the patch arrived, he read the patch notes better than me about the upcoming amenity change.

Suboptimal is currently building a couple old world wonders (Greath Bath, Stonehenge) I assume to get era score but he also has the most GCP, so maybe a very longshot tourism win.



As predicted, it took Woden more than 1 turn to rebuild the IZ.
I wonder at which point we should consider investing IZ projects to shoot for Gustave, I think investing 4 projects would be reasonable in terms of hammer return (960 worth while a project costs us currently 210.
So finishing right around 350 with 4 projects would be decent I think, let me check which other GE are available.
- Ada Lovelace +1 district above pop level and computers Eureka
- James Watt instantly creates workshop and factory, factories bring +2  to their cities
I think Gustave is clearly the best here, but James Watt appeals to the Builder in me ... :D

here is the start of the turn save, because I forgot to save later manually

[roland of gilead]

will need to have a look but it's a lot of hammers to invest. James watt would take a long time to pay back that 960 for example.

Stonehenge is worth 4 faith a turn I suppose. might pay back.

[roland of gilead]

i think unless you are confident of getting Eiffel it's dodgey