American Politics Discussion Thread

[Mjmd]

Racism and alot of patriotism.

I would say more nationalistic fervor (extremely powerful force that can be vaguely defined ('Make America Great Again'), but invokes extremely strong emotions). Not that patriotism isn't also a powerful force that can confused with each other and can feed on one another.

[Jowy]

Trump got impeached in the house for the second time. He will be normally out of office before he can be taken out as it'll go to the congress next, but that is a good thing in this case. Trump is very scared of being impeached because it would mean he can't run for prez again. That is why he is now trying to calm down the domestic terrorists who are planning armed protests soon.

[darrelljs]

Trump is very scared of being impeached because it would mean he can't run for prez again.

He's been impeached and he can still run. Even if the Senate votes to convict him (which requires 67/100), he can still run. A third, simple majority vote specifically to disqualify him from running again would be needed.

There is at least some uncertainty about the disqualification issue, since no president has ever been removed from office by the Senate and only judges have been disqualified from future office. The disqualification language in the Constitution is "disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States"; Garber noted that no court or Congress has ever settled the question of whether the presidency counts as an "Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States" from which the Senate is able to ban an impeached and convicted person.

Darrell

[Jowy]

Trump is very scared of being impeached because it would mean he can't run for prez again.

He's been impeached and he can still run.  Even if the Senate votes to convict him (which requires 67/100), he can still run.  A third, simple majority vote specifically to disqualify him from running again would be needed.

There is at least some uncertainty about the disqualification issue, since no president has ever been removed from office by the Senate and only judges have been disqualified from future office. The disqualification language in the Constitution is "disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States"; Garber noted that no court or Congress has ever settled the question of whether the presidency counts as an "Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States" from which the Senate is able to ban an impeached and convicted person.

Darrell

Thanks for the correction! Now, nobody tell Trump please.

[Charriu]

Garber noted that no court or Congress has ever settled the question of whether the presidency counts as an "Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States" from which the Senate is able to ban an impeached and convicted person.

Darrell

This sentence is just awesome. So a court might actually decide if the american presidency is honorable and trustworthy. 

[Nicolae Carpathia]

The Heritage foundation fuckwits who control the Supreme Court are an independent power structure from the maga freaks who would die for Trump. Would they rule against Trump? Or would they calculate it's more important to have Trump still powerful and walking free to gin up enough votes to put their guys in office in 2022? My guess is: yeah, Trump will never go to jail. He's too important for the conservative cause.

We are after all doing a 2009-2010 speedrun, where Democratic party governs only for their donor constituency, but not their voter constituency, is going to completely sink them in the midterms. After all, Biden has already negotiated down the stimulus checks down to $1400 lmfao. The people who turned out to vote out Trump are not going to turn up next year. The people who turned out for Trump (and there were more of them in 2020 than 2016!) will remain mobilized, remain energized, be galvanized by whatever idiotic culture war bullshit the Republican party trots out over the coming year.

[darrelljs]

600 + 1400 = 2000

[Cyneheard]

600 + 1400 = 2000

Yep.

A few points:
1) AOC's bill from two weeks ago - that passed the House - would have done this as well. It's just that you'd have gotten $2000 at once, instead of in two pieces. Criticizing this simply because it's in two pieces makes you look petty or Lucy and the football - where agreeing to your position from two weeks ago is no longer good enough. Feel free to advocate for more money on its own merits, but don't make up trouble.

2) The rest of that proposal is absolutely amazing.

A $15 minimum wage, and it includes disabled people and tipped workers (currently $2.13!!!). A bigger child tax credit - and making it fully refundable is huge, because it would leave out the poorest taxpayers. The differences this makes for the people who are struggling the most are gigantic - and these are the kinds of changes that stick around.

And that's not even getting into the more direct COVID stuff, like vaccine $s for states and local governments, which are essential to getting through COVID.

3) After four years of an administration that lies about anything and everything for no reason at all besides they can, and four years of GOP deciding "whatever trolls the Dems must be good," it's going to take a lot of work to have honest discussions and work on policies on their own merits. We know the GOP is going to make up whatever nonsense they need to to get through the day. Don't be like them.

And here's some political advice:
1) The Dems' majorities are miniscule. Not everything is going to be possible.
2) Big legislation is never perfect. So don't be shocked when it isn't, and don't give up because it isn't. America's problems weren't created overnight, and they're not going to be solved overnight.
3) Biden wants to work with the left, but they're not the only group he has to work with. But if a proposal that's 80% of what the left wants (everything else) and 20% what the left should have expected (the extra $1400), and it's treated as a grand betrayal - the left's credibility disappears very very quickly. Why should Biden work with the left if this is how he's going to get treated?
4) Politically, this response is helping ensure that we head into a midterm disaster. If Biden's first big bill - which does a lot of things that would have seemed impossible dreams for Bernie a year ago - , then yes, people are going to hear "the Dems are selling us out again" even though this is a very good bill. If that's what people hear for two years, the Dems are going to get absolutely crushed.

5) This GOP absolutely cannot be given any sort of power ever again. Not until they've excised their authoritarian elements that are perfectly content with stealing elections. We cannot go down the route you think we're headed - that the GOP is going to sweep the midterms - because if they do, they will almost certainly treat Biden as an illegitimate President and we'll go straight into disaster.

[Bobchillingworth]

Excellent post

[Commodore]

Anyone have an over/under on how long the Washington Green Zone will last?