[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[roland of gilead]

I think getting it is a really good shout if possible.

Looks a good City too.

no wonder we saw a Norwegian Sea name so fast.

I will get al converted then hopefully have a charge to use at my 3rd or 4th city.

One of the inspirations is to have 6 cities follow your religion so we will get that soon.

[roland of gilead]

TURN 55

Not much to report. The warrior in the west doesn't attack for some reason. Didn't like the odds i suppose. Suits me i will heal up and take it out if needed.



Micro Tav to still finish settler in 3 but work thee tea for science and growth.

[suboptimal]

Turn 55

Foreign Trade is complete, belatedly start Craftsmanship. I’ve got a notification that an unmet city-state has been defeated. The only player whose empire score jumped by any significant amount was...Archduke. This is my surprised face.

Warriors move south, builder boats the fish and Celestial Navigation’s eureka is in.

Looking at my galleys the central one backtracks slightly – it’ll be able to get to the far side of Desert Isolation before needing to head for Al. Other central galley finds nothing really interesting. I should know in a turn or two how big Big Island is. The eastern galley has a decision to make, north or east. I take a gamble and head north for a bit to see if there’s another city-state in the area. Don’t find any – just cliffs and plains hills. Galley at Norway heads south – I’m going to go defog the land mass south of (W)odin.

Check my policies, no changes.

Woden’s gotten his ninth tech, fifth civic and has a settler out.

[suboptimal]

OK...tech & civics time. Techs in this post, civics in the next and I promise no attempts at BB tables.

Classical Techs
Engineering (Build Ancient Walls) -> Horseback Riding: You're getting the eureka first (most likely) but we're both building walls
Construction (Build Water Mill) -> None: We're both building water mills at some point
Currency (Make a Trade Route) -> None: I've gotten Foreign Trade completed and could build a trader
Shipbuilding -> Horseback Riding: I've got the boost and will be completing it in 6-7 turns.
Mathematics (build three different district types) -> None: You're likely to get the boost before me
Celestial Navigation (Improve 2 sea resources) -> Horseback Riding: I've got the boost and it's the fifth tech I'll be researching
Iron Working (Iron Mine) -> None: ???
Horseback Riding -> Medieval Era tree: I've got the boost and two of the three techs are in my intended path

I think our "natural" intended path through the Classical tree doesn't require any adjustment. You're going to be favoring the infrastructure techs, I'm favoring the sea techs and that will get the boosts for the other person. I think my path through the tree will be Bronze Working -> Shipbuilding -> Masonry -> Celestial Navigation -> Aechery -> Currency -> Horseback Riding. I "should" be the one to get HBR since I've already got the boost for it.

For the Medieval Boosts I'd say that right now only you're "favored" for the Machinery boost (3 archers). As for Feudalism we'll both likely be getting 6 farms at some point before that civic becomes available. The others we should figure out once HBR is in and we see what's next in the tree.

[suboptimal]

Classical Civics

Theology (Found Religion) -> Unknown Column 2, bottom civic: Roland has the boost and should complete this civic before me
Unknown Column 1 -> Drama & Poetry: You've got the boost for Drama & Poetry and if this is Games & Rec then you'll be getting the boost for that and this path works. If the civic is Recorded History then Roland, you'll have to build a second Campus or I'll need to complete the civic first.
Defensive Tactics -> Political Philosophy: This is your current civics path so that's sorted.
Military Training -> Unknown Column 2: Hmmmm.....
Drama & Poetry -> Medieval: You've got the boost here
Political Philosophy -> Medieval: We'll know what's here once you finish PP.
Unknown Column 2 -> Medieval: We'll figure this out...eventually.

You're currenltly going Defensive Tactics -> PP while I'm currently going Craftsmanship -> Defensive Tactics -> Political Philosophy -> Theology. You'll likely be leading the way through the civics tree for now.

[Bruindane]

Turn 55

Foreign Trade is complete, belatedly start Craftsmanship.  I’ve got a notification that an unmet city-state has been defeated.  The only player whose empire score jumped by any significant amount was...Archduke.  This is my surprised face. 

None of those city states are going to last, are they?

Suppose, for argument, you don't take Monumentality  , but instead take Pen, Brush, and Voice  .  Keep buying ships with   and conquer a few city states while you can, leveraging Earth Goddess into a fleet.

[roland of gilead]

TURN 56

Move my warrior across river to see if i can tempt an attack or to be better placed to strike myself.



Reveal more good stuff and lots of land up here. 1 or 2 more cities perhaps.

Stuck an aspirational pin on big island as that would be some city for me if hard to defend.



General overview.

[roland of gilead]

Turn 55

Foreign Trade is complete, belatedly start Craftsmanship.  I’ve got a notification that an unmet city-state has been defeated.  The only player whose empire score jumped by any significant amount was...Archduke.  This is my surprised face. 

None of those city states are going to last, are they?

Suppose, for argument, you don't take Monumentality  , but instead take Pen, Brush, and Voice  .  Keep buying ships with   and conquer a few city states while you can, leveraging Earth Goddess into a fleet.

I don't know if we go that far but someone taking a a city state this early has me worried on a couple of fronts.

It is a hell of an early boost. They don't look to be great cities but free cities this early is some step up. 

I had hoped to really control a couple of city stares with my 8-10 free envoys from apadana. I had hoped they would be hard to conquer. 

I also fear we are heading for a PBEM 19 again here. 

Do we take 1 or 2 or more ourselves. very easy to do i would say? 2 galleys could take one. 

Forget east vilnius and take vilnius?

also curious as to how dido gets 21 science without a campus? fountain of youth or similar?

[suboptimal]

Monumentality is the way to go for me. I have the largest income in the game right now and with all of the high-appeal tiles around that's going to go up each time I settle a new city. That's an advantage that must be exploited. Settling all of the islands either inland or with as little sea accessibility as possible helps to secure that advantage.

I don't see a PBEM 19 chain reaction situation occurring here...that was partly (mostly?) the result of the city-states being clustered. Here they're all spread out.

The fact that city-states can be a hell of a boost is why they tend to get taken early. I don't think all of them will be taken off the map as captures. Some will still be useful (Rapa Nui, for one) - you're dedlurking PBEM 18, ask yourself why Bologna is still on the map at Turn 201. When I look at the save tonight I'll look around and see what can be taken. I think Nazca for sure as it's centrally located. Brussels would be harder but doable for sure. Vilnius would be an easy take but I don't see how we could hold onto it given how close it is to Norway. I ran the numbers last night after my turn - Nazca and Vilnius could each be captured in three turns with two galleys. Brussels would require a third galley to get done in a reasonable amount of time. What I could do is get two settlers out (one for Chocolate Island, one for Big Island) while getting the south-central galley into the area around Nazca. The two central galleys could then take that city-state and I'd pick up a third galley to go after Brussels with the others. Vilnius has diplomatic risks given its location.

One other thing to keep in mind here - per the house rules we're alllowed to exchange cities the turn after they are captured. Theoretically I could capture a couple of these and hand one or two over to you.

I also have to look at the map and see if I could have possibly missed on on my trip north from Russia.

The only wonder that could provide Pheonicia that much science would be the Galapagos Islands shared between two cities. Something else might be going on but I'm not sure what. I'll need to ponder that some (and look at their known yield history). Could be a promoted Pingala in a high-food city with some science resources?

[roland of gilead]

You are allowed to gift Vilnius to me right?

I will have good culture on it soon enough.

it's certainly part pingala perhaps all.