[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[suboptimal]

Yes, I could gift you Vilnius after taking it.

I think the question remains "how would Ljubljana/Woden" react to it?"

[roland of gilead]

Yeah that is the real question indeed. See what you think i am easy with whatever strategy.

We should be looking to secure some new Luxuries from these islands certainly.

[suboptimal]

Turn 56

Open the save to a Nazcan galley off my capital’s coast:




Move the warriors south, then focus turns to the galleys. Brussels is only at a 21 defense, not a 31 defense, so they’d fall in 3 turns as well. Instead of continuing east my galley in the area heads north and will loop back west to defog the area around the city-state some more. I do locate some tundra but nothing new. There is likely no other city-state in the immediate region.




I think Big Island is no joke:




I think that what I defogged up at Brussels is contiguous with what I’ve found down here. I think that changes things quite a bit. Notably, both cattle in the screenshot above are on fresh water according to settlervision, as is the tile SW of the barbarian warrior. A river source can be seen sticking out of the fog on the SW corner of the barbarian’s tile.

Galley at Wodin finds nothing new yet.

Phoenicia has not generated any great scientist points on their turn so they remain Campus-free...the plot thickens.

In looking at Big Island it is, indeed, big. Big enough for 4-6 cities. Then there’s the matter of city-states. Vinius has citrus, which is good. It’s also real close to Norway and if we took it I don’t know that we’d hold it against an invasion, particularly if Norway gets a city down by the dyes:




East Vilnius only offers horses, which we have enough of. Chocolate and Starfish Islands offer new resources for our continent and we should settle those. Big Island has lots of real estate and should also be settled. The primary question here is how and by whom?

Roland, you’ve got two turns to finish Wheel, you’ll have the Bronze Working eureka next turn (I finish the tech). It appears if you went for Shipbuilding you’d have Bronze Working completed on Turn 62 and Shipbuilding completed about 6 turns after that (I’d get you the eureka). Is this the case (assume Shipbuilding will take you 72 to complete)?

I CAST LESSER WALL OF WORDS
(save vs. Charm or be stunned for 5 turns)

In looking at our situations in terms of yields, map positions and geography I think what we should do is the following:

- Roland, if you’re considering Monumentality I think that Pyramids and Petra should be your immediate goals, along with some additional settlers. Your current dot map shows four cities in addition to the Chocolate River site that’s next in the queue. I suggest setting up a dotmap around the river SW of Al – I’ve cleared all my pins out of there. You will need to get your faith income up but that’s easier said than done.
- My first Monumentality settler is going to Big Island and settling on the cove location. I intend to chain settle Big Island from north to south with bought settlers, cramming in as many landlocked cities as is reasonable given the terrain and fresh water availability. The cove location is to provide a spot for an easily protected Harbor location that I can use for sea trade connections and land locking the cities gives me a smaller coastal footprint to defend. Both existing warriors are headed to Big Island for barbarian clearance and scouting.
- If you have Shipbuilding complete and want to settle the islands then you can have Chocolate and Starfish. However, they should probably get settled sooner rather than later to secure them from Norwegian interference. If you don’t want either then I’ll settle Starfish first to secure furs and then Chocolate later on since it’s a duplicate resource for us. Starfish is a must to control given its proximity to my capital. Chocolate, as a landlocked settlement, is a good defensive position as well. Note that as I understand the rules we can only trade conquered cities, not founded ones.
- I think Nazca should die, though we also need to see what’s around Brussels. Nazca would have access to both adjacent islands. If anything, that’s a good spot to park an Encampment – take the city, grab the plains tile across the channel and build the Encampment there.
- I’m not sold on taking Vilnius because its proximity to Norway makes it difficult to defend. Likewise, until I see more around Brussels what I can see does not make it look like a city that can be reasonably developed.
- East Vilnius offers horses, which we have plenty of, and a good defensive position. I could be convinced to settle or not settle that.

Of course, with a limited coastal footprint this begs the question of what our path to victory becomes. If Mercenaries can be gotten to relatively easily I think the answer is “eat or cripple Norway/Phoenicia with jongs” and profit, particularly if the “distance” between jongs and frigates is large. The fallback position would be to either make a quixotic attempt at a cultural victory or go whole hog and attempt a space race victory. I think either of those builder options is attemptable since we’re likely to be plowing through the civics tree relatively quickly and the “conventional wisdom” is that high is good for a space race. We should make this sort of decision sometime before Turn 100 as our district build focus will depend on our decisions on this.

I also think that we should be looking to pick up Wats as a religious building to further any of the above objectives. It should be the last belief but I wouldn’t wait too long – Russia might pick that up if given the opportunity. I’d almost say it’d be worth picking up before the Founder’s belief but I’ll leave that largely up to you.

I’ll also say that this is just my opinion and I’m open to any and all debate on the topic. Bruindane, please pitch in as well...you’ve had a few good insights so far and are likely to have a few about this I/we aren’t looking at.

spell ends

[roland of gilead]

TURN 57

Warrior still doesn't attack it is getting skelped next turn.



Switch to craftmanship as next turn all 3 of my cities will be making workers to really kick start my empire.

[roland of gilead]

Ok now onto strategy. Probably spread across many posts in my usual verbal diarrhea style. Just the way my mind works I am afraid.

General strategy is all cities need a wonder asap. I have pinned that out.

Starfish island is the most appealing to me. I can get great bath there.

A sity SW of Al is great fro me. if i settle the wheat over the river i can get it in range of Jebel and Coliseum.

My apostles will come from Mahabodi Temple so that will be a priority.

Faith will come as follows Jebel will be a priority. Chocolate city will build a temple first. I will run the double adjacency faith policy as much as possible, temples and shrines in place and from my wonders.

research i will go bronze working next then hopefully into iron working to get on with jebel. Surely we both have iron somewhere.

Culture is clear PP then Theology.

[roland of gilead]

On spending Faith the best value is from buying traders. second from workers especially after feudalism. then settlers. Due to the policy cards and perhaps Ancestral Hall.

Then there is settlers and builders being 30% cheaper with faith purchase.

There are other advantages in buying settlers though not least buying in new cites for best population loss value. and closer to where you need them.

I intend to buy all my trade routes via faith and then perhaps builders in my Liang city. That leaves me building settlers really but let's see what kind of faith economy i can get going.

[roland of gilead]

City planning.

Capital is doing 2 workers. Then needs walls Campus Temple and water mill. Also needs Apadana that is worth a pile of gold, faith, science and culture. Between my religion and 2 envoys. I also need Mahabodi and Oracle here asap. Lot's to do but i have 3 chops.

Tav finishes settler and does a worker then onto campus and library. Possibly 2 archers.

Goldson gets Pyramids and Jebel asap. but next turn does worker then finishes granary into GP and Ancestral hall. I need those free workers. it has a chop as well.

chocolate city gets hanging gardens giving a chop and at same time does walls, granary then holy site. I hope at size 4 this city can work crater lake.

then all 4 cities do settlers i would suggest.

ideally i get cap to pop 7 before then to lay down the harbour.

[roland of gilead]

As for longer term i can't see how we can win culture certainly not with russia still in game. Culture is all rock bands and national parks and open borders.

Science won't the others just gang up on us? Why would they let us get that far and we have several space race teams in the game.

It all comes down to violence i assume. My intention is to get down good research and culture. Build faith gold and production towards a large land army to compliment your navy.

[roland of gilead]

And finally looking at all this i need around 35 builder charges over the next 20 - 30 turns. Better hope i land the Pyramids.

Certainly someone could beat me to it but it would be a bold move to try.

[Bruindane]

As for longer term i can't see how we can win culture certainly not with russia still in game. Culture is all rock bands and national parks and open borders.

This provided an inspiration, and tied into a few ideas for Indonesia, on how to leverage  ,  and :Jongs:.

* Build Warlord's Throne.  Capture enemy cities to utilize the 20% bonus  .  Holding them is optional.
* Build Natural Parks for the amenities, as part of the high-appeal city settling snowball with Earth Goddess.
* If opportunity is there, spike build Seaside Resorts and go for the Culture win.