[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[suboptimal]

In no particular order...

- I think your build plans look fine. I think in the near future, though, you'll want to get a galley or two out for coastal defense, along with one or two more land units just to have a few around.

- Our ability to conduct violence will rely on two things - a high rate to beat a path through the tech tree and a high rate for me to get jongs well before anyone else can complete Square Rigging. I'd also need for quadrireme upgrades and finish the settler build from Monumentality soon enough to get enough quadriremes out before Mercenaries. What makes it a little easier is that Mercenaries unlocks Professional Army so the upgrades are cheaper.

- I've previously done a full analysis of potential of a cultural victory in MP situations....in PBEM 18. Bruindane, if you're not lurking there you might want to check it out (though I forget where in the turn count I did it). Roland, having that discussion now would act as a spoiler for that game, so for now I'm not going to rehash things here (yet). However, given that we pool our tourist counts to achieve victory that actually makes it slightly easier to achieve, IMHO, despite the increased cost of foreign tourists in an 8-person game. This map is also more amenable to it. Russia being in the game is a factor but not a major one, IMHO. The generation of is your main defense against losing a cultural victory and we've taken control of one of Russia's more powerful ways to generate it (Choral Music). If you're not familiar with the mechanics & mathematics of a cultural victory Potato McWhiskey did a youtube video comparing the use of Nat Parks vs. Rock Bands and spent the first third of that video explaining the mechanics. It's worth a watch even if that doesn't become our end goal here. I will say that a decision to pursue a cultural victory might affect my city placement and build plans on Big Island.

- Regarding the Government Plaza I'm actually inclined to build the Audience Chamber this game for the amenities and housing. It'd also require going "wide" with my governors instead of tall. I'm going to be building the district too late to make Ancestral Hall be useful and Warlord's Throne would require near-constant warmongering which I'm not sure I'd be able to support long-term. As much as I like my Intelligence Agencies this game dictates the Grandmaster's Chapel as the Tier 2 build.

- Speaking of governors I'd likely be looking at Reyna w/ Forestry Management or Harbormaster, Liang, Pingala w/ Researcher and Connoisseur, and then maybe Victor and Magnus or Amani to round out the pile for Audience Chamber. Moksha's later promotions would dovetail well with my plans (Citadel of God & Divine Architect) but they're too costly/late to get and with Audience Chamber you want more governors, not less.

- Regardless of the victory type(s) we pursue the key, at least for my civ, is to get as much as fast as possible. For this game that's Shrines, Temples and Monuments and possibly, eventually, Theater Squares with Entertainment Complexes.

[roland of gilead]

As for longer term i can't see how we can win culture certainly not with russia still in game. Culture is all rock bands and national parks and open borders.

This provided an inspiration, and tied into a few ideas for Indonesia, on how to leverage  ,  and :Jongs:.

* Build Warlord's Throne.  Capture enemy cities to utilize the 20% bonus  .  Holding them is optional.
* Build Natural Parks for the amenities, as part of the high-appeal city settling snowball with Earth Goddess.
* If opportunity is there, spike build Seaside Resorts and go for the Culture win.

Warlords throne could well work for Sub. 

Certainly national parks and seaside resorts we have the map for. 

all that land up north etc and plenty of high appeal coast. 

We can see how it looks. There is no question i can get my culture up to 200-300 a turn if that is the play but i remain to be convinced certainly.

[suboptimal]

Based on where we are with this game I think our decision point is 20-30 turns out. It's also possible to pursue the violent approach while laying the groundwork for a non-violent one.

[roland of gilead]

I think our initial target should be to leverage those Jongs. Of course others may make take that out of our hands. we may also not have the set up to do that.

Have a look at the pins i added Sub if you get a chance.

[suboptimal]

Jongs are most certainly at the top of the menu. Anything else is a plan 'b'.

I'll check out the pins when the save comes around.

[roland of gilead]

In no particular order...

- I think your build plans look fine.  I think in the near future, though, you'll want to get a galley or two out for coastal defense, along with one or two more land units just to have a few around.

- Our ability to conduct violence will rely on two things - a high rate to beat a path through the tech tree and a high rate for me to get jongs well before anyone else can complete Square Rigging.  I'd also need for quadrireme upgrades and finish the settler build from Monumentality soon enough to get enough quadriremes out before Mercenaries.  What makes it a little easier is that Mercenaries unlocks Professional Army so the upgrades are cheaper. 

- I've previously done a full analysis of potential of a cultural victory in MP situations....in PBEM 18.  Bruindane, if you're not lurking there you might want to check it out (though I forget where in the turn count I did it).  Roland, having that discussion now would act as a spoiler for that game, so for now I'm not going to rehash things here (yet).  However, given that we pool our tourist counts to achieve victory that actually makes it slightly easier to achieve, IMHO, despite the increased cost of foreign tourists in an 8-person game.  This map is also more amenable to it.  Russia being in the game is a factor but not a major one, IMHO.  The generation of is your main defense against losing a cultural victory and we've taken control of one of Russia's more powerful ways to generate it (Choral Music).    If you're not familiar with the mechanics & mathematics of a cultural victory Potato McWhiskey did a youtube video comparing the use of Nat Parks vs. Rock Bands and spent the first third of that video explaining the mechanics.  It's worth a watch even if that doesn't become our end goal here. I will say that a decision to pursue a cultural victory might affect my city placement and build plans on Big Island.

- Regarding the Government Plaza I'm actually inclined to build the Audience Chamber this game for the amenities and housing.  It'd also require going "wide" with my governors instead of tall.  I'm going to be building the district too late to make Ancestral Hall be useful and Warlord's Throne would require near-constant warmongering which I'm not sure I'd be able to support long-term.  As much as I like my Intelligence Agencies this game dictates the Grandmaster's Chapel as the Tier 2 build.

- Speaking of governors I'd likely be looking at Reyna w/ Forestry Management or Harbormaster, Liang, Pingala w/ Researcher and Connoisseur, and then maybe Victor and Magnus or Amani to round out the pile for Audience Chamber.  Moksha's later promotions would dovetail well with my plans (Citadel of God & Divine Architect) but they're too costly/late to get and with Audience Chamber you want more governors, not less.

- Regardless of the victory type(s) we pursue the key, at least for my civ, is to get as much as fast as possible.  For this game that's Shrines, Temples and Monuments and possibly, eventually, Theater Squares with Entertainment Complexes.

Sorry just seeing this. I hope to be able to support you with gold from great wall and some other nice tiles plus CH and harbors.

 I will watch that Video tomorrow and i have certainly done my share of cultural wins. The Game Mechanic favors National parks but him and Potato often differ. 

I am certainly happy to give it a go if we think it is viable. I will get some writers etc in cap from theater Square Pingala and Oracle hopefully. Evan with Russia in game i believe. 

We need to asses other teams tactics at some point too. 

Russia/Australia going fairly standard faith gold hammers. guess we will see Cossack at some point. 

Phoenicia/Norway early sea terrorism?

[roland of gilead]

Jongs are most certainly at the top of the menu.  Anything else is a plan 'b'.

I'll check out the pins when the save comes around.

good stuff. 

I will get archers out and you are right a couple of galleys to support the coast cities protect harbors etc.

[suboptimal]

Turn 57

Bronze Working is complete. Where is the iron? I have notification that I have one at Obvious Child:




There goes the Holy Site placement. . There is a +3 location in the third ring NW of the fish that I could use later on. There’s a second over between Diamonds and Al:




There are two in Chinese territory which I’ve marked with pins and didn’t take a screenshot of. Where are the other three? There’s one on East Vilnius, one tile to the east of my pin. The other two are up by my eastern galley:




They’re well out of the way. The search for iron over I start Shipbuilding, currently listed at 7 turns to complete but with two Campus districts coming online over the next two turns that count will drop quite a bit.

I get the warriors moved. Eastern galley runs into an oceanic dead end and will need to backtrack to get back to Brussels. Central galley north of Nazca goes two tiles to the east and then north one tile.




That’s the Achelous River to the south, which is on the Greek list. We’re likely not the first ones here given that Woden met Nazca before us. This galley will be heading back to Al for escort duty. The other galley moves up the coast and yeah, it’s all one big land mass.




There’s room for at least five fresh water cities, maybe six. I think what I might want to do is run the first settler to the cove, the second to the Achelous River and then settle inwards from there. I’ll need to see if Woden attempts a forward settle here.

The last galley moves down the coast and reaches the end of Norwegian influence:




Woden’s likely founded a city – his empire score went up by 6.

Roland, I’ll take a look at your pin placement in a bit (and maybe take that screenshot of the iron in your territory).

[suboptimal]

Here's a screenshot of China showing the iron, with pins:




Note that in the screenshot the tiles still have the yields they did before the iron was revealed - the yields won't update until you finish Bronze Working. BTW, that's a good way to look for what resource techs other people have (or not have) - look around for either unusual yields or resources that don't have enough yields.

You placement looks OK though the Starfish location looks a little exposed (I'll delete my pin there on my next turn). At the mainland site I assume you're putting an Encampment in here somewhere?

[roland of gilead]

Here's a screenshot of China showing the iron, with pins:




Note that in the screenshot the tiles still have the yields they did before the iron was revealed - the yields won't update until you finish Bronze Working.  BTW, that's a good way to look for what resource techs other people have (or not have) - look around for either unusual yields or resources that don't have enough yields. 

You placement looks OK though the Starfish location looks a little exposed (I'll delete my pin there on my next turn).  At the mainland site I assume you're putting an Encampment in here somewhere?

Added the Encampment 1 east and moved starfish 1 west.