[SPOILER]PB58 - Mr. Cairo residing over the remains of Serdoas Library of Knowledge

[Serdoa]

Quick question I hope someone is around and can answer: If I share a tile in neutral territory with another players units and declare war, they will get teleported away, right?

[Serdoa]

Ok, so I think I found out that I get teleported which is now awkward because Ruff double-moved me while we are in a settling race, which he probably did not know (but could expect from all my units in the area imo). I though I can rectify that by just moving onto his unit and port him away. 

But if I can't do that, I would like some lurker input into if a reload is warranted to establish turn order. Area in question:



Note: On the hill with my Spear there is also an Archer and a Settler of Ruff.

T110:

I play first. 
I moved my spear 1S of the rice.
I unloaded my galley where my city is now planted.
I saw his settler (and only his settler) 1W of the hill we are all on now. 

He played last (of all) and ended turn. I presume he did not move his settler on the hill (else he could have settled this turn but did not).

T111: 

He immediately played this turn.
He moved the settler and the archer on the hill after he had built the road with the two fast workers. Those together with the archer must have been where Tarkeel (the red one) scout is now. 

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If he had kept turn order I could (and would) have moved my spear onto the hill first and declared war, making it impossible for him to settle there. As you can see I have another Axe and Settler in the area and another Axe on the Galley as well. So from my point of view we pretty clearly were in a settling race though I did fail to tell him last turn. Mostly because it was Saturday morning and I did not find the time. 

So, is a reload warranted here?

[Serdoa]

Addendum: The game also states I ended my turn... I think I did something wrong when pausing it. I will need to do stuff if the decision is to not reload. 

Also why I am at it: Looking at my go to comparison "What would be happening in sequential?" it is clear that I could have moved onto the hill before he could have moved there and therefore prevented him from settling.

[Serdoa]

Ok, so reading the Pitboss etiquette:

In a peace-time turn split (eg a settling or hut-popping race) the turn you realise there should be a split is when the order is established.

So, I realized T110 that there should be a split, at that point I was first in turn order. Going by this I should have been first in turn order on T111 as well. That is something that Ruff could not know of course so he did not do anything wrong by assuming he can play but the reload is still warranted because by the rule we should at that point establish the split.

(Which btw as explained before imo makes also sense in the context that it leads to:

I move - he moves - I move - he moves

instead of what we have now:

I move - he moves - he moves - I move

which quite obviously is a double-move.)

[Charriu]

This is a great example why one should inform the other side about a peace turn split.

[Serdoa]

Absolutely agreed and no question that I should have made time for that / thought about it. However I also believe this rule is meant to establish a turn order so that both sides work on equal grounds, so that "it is fair". Denying that on the ground of "you should have told him" does punish me inside a months long game and allows a double-move, which the rules are meant to settle so they do not happen. 

I can't change that I did not tell him in time. However if we reload that will lead to the situation that we would have had, had I done so and what the rule actually means to establish. Which btw probably should be appended by "and send a PM to the other side to inform it about that turn-split". 

So, yeah, I know it sucks for everyone to replay a turn but getting double-moved on a critical turn sucks as well.

[Charriu]

No no, this was only me speaking and no final judgment by the lurkers. My comment was also not meant as judgment rather as a hint of how to prevent this situation in the future

[Serdoa]

Yeah. Its just frustrating, when I declared on Tarkeel I immediately sent him a PM so he knew, so it is not like I intentionally do not do these things, I actually already try my best to play according to the rules. I've played several turns not immediately after they rolled because I assumed I could be in a turn-split situation. And the one time it counts I just couldn't do it in time.

[Charriu]

I don't blame you. It's just a great example for the community at large

[Cornflakes]

This is one of the unfortunate drawback of Simultaneous mode. Where do you look for the turn split to be active? Do Ruff get precedence because he happened to play before you this turn when he didn’t know you had a settler headed for that spot? Do you get precedence because you happened to play before Ruff on the previous turn when you didn’t know he had a settler headed for that spot? Does Ruff get precedence because he happened to play before you 2 turns before that? ... ... ... where does one draw line?

I always interpreted the etiquette quite thread as a list of duties for a player to abide by, rather than giving any players a duty or right. As in: once you saw his settler you are obligated to not double move, but not the right to impose a turn split ... unless you use the in-game mechanics of a war declaration And the resulting duty of both players to abide by the firmly established war turn split.