[Mjmd #59] Sea Shanties!

[Mjmd]

Hrmm that didn't work!?!?

Anyways early micro looks promising. Sometimes things just feel right. I was thinking of not settling the pig city first, but timing works out perfectly for chopping the forest out from underneath for a T30 settle, that chop also finishes work boat (cultural helps me pick up 6 extra hammers which is actually relevant!!!).

2nd settler T37. 2nd and 3rd worker T40 and T41 respectively atm. I may cut the T40 worker for a warrior depending. It is also taking up a chop and I may want to be at new city pronto depending on food resource for said 3rd city (if AH I won't have it done quite yet so chop may be fine). I also can play around between finishing ivory and doing a chop instead of that timing dependent. Delays the T40 worker until T41 I believe if I use overflow instead of direct and obviously wouldn't have ivory finished, but would make worker available right away. Again depends on where I want 3rd city. Obviously no military though...... Have I mentioned I may not be scouting a ton and instead be fog busting? One quick circle is probably it. Cultural also helps as I won't need scout back north for that site and will help fog bust other areas ect.

I'll have to verify my tech costs are ok ect; they definitely weren't in PB56, but I wouldn't think it would affect BW which is the key one for all this.

[Mjmd]

I woke up and something was bothering me. I was too sleep deprived last night to fully register it, but I got a forest on the river silk that was in original screenshot. I want to state for the record I care 0%. It delays my scouting 1 turn now, but will be a nice tile later. Also extra chop at some point. My brain actually working this morning makes me think I should cottage that tile at some point. So chop into granary and then cottage? Maybe. 

[Lewwyn]

Yeah I figured you wouldn't mind the extra forest, otherwise I would have mentioned it before. 

[Mjmd]

Waiting on turn to roll to report, but getting late so why not!

Mechanics question: does ice count towards land tiles? I'm getting a higher land tiles per player than told although we shall see what immediate area looks like. Am I hoping for larger uninhabited land masses..... YES.

Anyways worked on micro more than prudent last night. Didn't like some things about pig city first; mainly that it didn't have a worker to actually improve the pig when I researched. It had that sweet timing with chopping the forest though.... WELL I timed out if I settled a corn city first and it turns out that chopping that same forest for pig city gets capital to 40/100 for perfect two pop whip on 2nd settler! Worker then puts a couple turns into ivory before going to immediately improve pig. City grows to size 2 in perfect timing to work both and produce 10 hammers for another worker (1 pop whipped). In other words timings looked good. So obviously it just has to be seen where in the vast river network to place the corn city. That city also obviously did well as it had a wet corn.

Then there was a problem this turn after I put in all that work.......



That gem is the only other happy resource I'm seeing and its jungled. Meaning the only way to get the happy is to settle on it. BUT its not on the bloody river making it a poor candidate for 2nd city. IF I want to settle on it that leaves exactly 1 other spot for a 2nd city that can share the corn. I'll probably do it as long as it has literally any 2nd food in the bfc. Settling on a grassland river hill is not preferred, but hoping something is in the fog. I generally avoid IW for a while and on emperor I have to imagine the extra early happy is just necessary, but I don't think I'm willing to settle a city without new food either. In my sim I was settling on the plains river tile which is the same # of turns if I do end up going on hill so I won't have to redo micro at least.

Other than that there is a pretty obvious jungle connection to something NE. Neighbor or neighbors unknown. I'm sure like PB54 SD is the other direction warrior rushing me (seriously I think someone is doing this; probably Byzantium or Arabia*)

[Mjmd]

I'm not a person who likes when people post constant "here is my EVERY turn scouting" but this is interesting and I want to chew on it myself more. Plus I was in Imgur for T150 for PB56 so why not.

The turn after I go grrr I need those gems for happy I of course find not only more happy but that the plains river spot is NUTS! Of course I would probably still choose the grassland hill but unless there is a deer in those woods it looks like it doesn't have a new food source and I'm not willing to do that.



I'll probably let capital border pop reveal tiles south and hook down and round and back up towards those floodplains. There is a tiny bit of Jungle I can see down south which might be another bridge. I'll zoom by, but I'm more interested if that floodplain area is a contested zone like PB52. I may have a thing for contested floodplain zones even when not financial

[Mjmd]

Scouted the wrong way and a panther bit a chunk out of my scout so 4 turns to heal it is. Note picture is rotated and I'll be using actual directions. After discovering that the "coast" was just a lake I went south and should have gone 2W of where I am currently to check if that is the end or another connector. Instead now I have to decide if I go back or go up towards floodplains. Probably only have time for 1 before scout should fog bust.



The question on the beaver is is it contested? Is it even an island or is it part of another persons territory. I can see jungle which I'm assuming is a bridge. I'm of course wondering due to happy concerns, which also leads me back to that jungled gem. Settled on the river grabs 2nd ring wheat and gets gold all in one city. Also connected via river, which is actually the more pressing concern losing the early free commerce. Settling on doesn't give extra commerce like I thought (it would if it was on river but not off). So question is is the lost commerce and growth until roads worth the happy longer term, which will be worth a lot across the empire until IW. To be fair I would also probably mine the gold faster.

Now I could redo micro if pig city first for the trade commerce and see if I can get that micro better as it wasn't bad other than where worker was. I could then either settle gem as 3rd city or settle some kind of gold city (one by the wheat and cow? or even on plains hill 1W of gold I haven't marked) or possible the port city. Depends on how many workers and timing I want. Part of the riddle of extra happy worth it is how fast do I want to be vs how much I want to grow vertical. Normally I'm all for crashing my economy as fast as possible expanding, but on emperor this might not be as prudent. This certainly does look like a map where expanding fast is very possible as non imperialistic. The answer might just be wait until copper is revealed and then redo micro at this point... Maybe play a game on emperor for feel.

[Mjmd]

So I figured out I was an idiot (as usual) and could just spend 2 turns going 2 west where I should have gone and back. Now of course I want to spend another two turns going to the hill down there..... but I'm posting so I resist that urge. Any city down there is likely #5 so I can wait a second. It does look like it is confirmed back lines, but shall see if any other seafood.



So the problem with a map this lush is placing cities is HARD. There are 4 spots for the gold, I should have put a sign 1S of it. I really do want to settle on gems, but I'm still waffling. I will note the 'nope' sign is where I would really like to settle, but it annoyingly misses a new food in all directions.....

If I do decide to settle gem I have to decide when still. Again because of the wet corn I would like whatever new city is in that direction to take it for a second. Trying to debate how much the river commerce is worth. If I settle the northern pig first I would end up chopping the silk forest and end up with 2 workers over there, which is a little awkward, but one can go to gem pig and another can chop a forest for gem city for another worker there. I think I want to settle on the gem for the happy. Tough to pass up such an obvious powerhouse second city, but the gem city still grabs 2 new food while sharing a wet corn so other than it not being on a river is still a good early city and long term I gain an extra happy, which I think on emperor will be worth it?

Part of the issues is obviously not knowing where copper is, but with creative it shouldn't be an issue. I actually have to decide on micro plan 1 turn before discovering BW as I have to decide which forest to move to to then chop the turn BW finishes. I probably won't post again until then.

[Mjmd]

Well I'm almost off the front page, so time to update  I guess? Scout got attacked by a bear and survived thanks to being on wooded hill (bear still had 65% odds). Anyways, will have to head back after healing so this is most I'll be able to scout for now. It looks like the river with the floodplains empties out, so at least that part may not be contested. Even if it is contested it looks like 1st ring cities are in the clear.



Figured I would do goals? PB56 is on pause today and need something to type right?
1) Keep track of how much creative is useful. As mentioned I've kind of always considered it a "luxury" trait because some games you just don't need culture very much (see PB56). This does not look to be one of those games.
2) Don't die early. With current map layout I'm feeling ok about this one. With at least 2 jungle bridges I would anticipate not a ton of 'early' conflict. I'm not sure how to feel about this on one hand
           A) I'm in probably the lower half of players playing this game so helps make me safer       
           B) I'm creative which helps with settler wars and overall my combo is probably one of the fastest non imperialistic I could get.
3) War vs expansion (controlling expansion pace)? I think this is going to come down to neighbor luck and what they are doing. I should be able to get to currency and construction somewhat reasonably, but again lot of good players and I tend to over-expand........ I'm counting about 105 ish land tiles non jungled (assuming a few to the east non contested). With shown islands to west +8 minimum = 113 tiles, which is right around what we were told per player. Means the jungle is probably not counted towards our number nor are the wine islands and possible not beaver island (which means I want it PRONTO). Also makes me want to abuse creative and plant some jungle cities that still grab food. Question is "when" of course. Obviously even being organized the more I expand the slower I'll be to currency, but being creative I really want to....... For instance the northern wine island I may just grab from the shore with culture can either place to share wheat or gets fish. BUT I'm also really greedy and kind of want to place a city on the plains tile 3E of the cow that would have no food....... This is why I need a ded lurker is stupid ideas like that. Its probably just better to place the southern border city and chop out a galley and see if I can race, but again how slow to currency do I want to be..... It should be noted because of lighthouse and library discounts I may end up with nothing to build but units that will slow me to currency and will need something to do with them right?

[Mjmd]

The answer might just be wait until copper is revealed and then redo micro at this point...

Wish I had listened and not created 5 different micro iterations taking multiple hours...... Ah well, I actually enjoy micro a bit, which is good because copper......



So I wasn't purposefully ignoring the 3 food spot marked with an up by the crabs before, but the plan was to take the pig with the shared fish. Put a border city to grab the corn somewhere around city 7-8 and then leave the crab for filler. This is one of those things where learning civ4 multiplayer sharing food with capital has been one of the things I was educated on was "important". Seeing that city site though..... 

To note being creative and with it being on river I will pick up the southern copper naturally (which eliminated alt4 gold spot), but I don't think ignoring that upper copper is smart especially with all that food. I know I said food and hammers may not be as important on emperor on this map, well A) I'm probably wrong and B) I don't think it applies to something that clearly good. Like gem city vs plains river uber city is close ish to me as at least the gem city grabs 2 new food and provides happy long term. Gold can still be settled city 4 for another 2 new food. Not grabbing 3 food and a copper seems wrong.

Anyways more micro work to be done. I'll probably post final next turn roll and report the lion vs scout fight. That scout literally just healed. Has woody I on a forested hill so hoping. There were literally 2 black squares a barb could be in, so little annoyed.

[Mjmd]

Bloody lion at 9.6 odds almost slew me! Didn't even give me enough exp to promote. I moved towards city which will expand borders next turn and I'll heal in culture for a couple of turns.

Usually I post full micro, but its not done yet (I'll edit in later). The broad strokes look good though for settling northern city first. It was a little frustrating as my original micro had a chop going into a work boat. However if I did that I ended up whipping off of the improved rice which felt bad. If I didn't chop work boat, I ended up at 39/100 for 2nd settler..... So instead I'll put 1 turn into settler at size 3 and chop will go in that turn, then let it grow. That settler will be bound for gems. Now putting a 2nd chop into anything means I'll delay improving the dry corn by a turn, which delays it growing by a turn. I figured out though if I put 1 turn a worker then though that I can then put a chop in after improving the dry corn. Worker is then whipped and goes to pig for gem city and gets to improve THE turn the culture expands from creative!!!! Assuming I don't mess up, assuming nothing goes wrong.......

I'm also thinking of switching my naming theme to Sea Shanties (and probably thread title to). Seems more Portugal.

Edited in micro options depending if I see a barb I might have to suicide scout on next turn (wasn't able to heal scout for settling time).

Settle North Copper
T27 worker go to forest 1N of rice
T29 settler finishes, revolt to slavery
T30 finish chop into settler
T31 switch back to workboat Settle 2nd city and put 1 turn into worker, set tech rate to 0%
T32 set tech rate to 100% , 2nd city start warrior
T35 whip settler
T40 2nd city switch to worker to receive chop
T41 whip worker (to go to pig of 3rd city)

Settle North Copper > capital build warrior (delays work boat)
T27 worker go to forest 1N of rice
T29 settler finishes, start warrior
T30 finish chop into settler, revolt to slavery
T31 Settle 2nd city and put 1 turn into worker, set tech rate to 0%
T32 set tech rate to 100% , 2nd city start warrior, capital switches back to warrior
T33 switch off rice to another 1/2 tile.
T35 whip settler
T40 2nd city switch to worker to receive chop
T41 whip worker (to go to pig of 3rd city)