[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[suboptimal]

Religious conversion only helps from a loyalty perspective if you've founded a religion (it might help if it's your majority religion, but I forget). Loyalty has no effect upon conversion rates - they're independent mechanics.

I was under the impression that Writing on the Wall was a capital mainly because it didn't appear (or I thought it didn't appear) in Archduke's deal screen. However, I had a similar problem in PBEM 15 where none of Japper's cities appeared in the list. I got a definitive answer by looking at the domination victory score screen - no one's captured a capital yet. I'd say there'd be a notification but I didn't see one when Woden took Kaiser's capital in PBEM 18 (not a spoiler, we all know he did it ) The comment about the deal screen notwithstanding, Open Government is his capital. You get a city list, in the order of founding/capturing, when you mouse over a civ's icon on any of the GP tallies. Open Government is listed first and it's the city in the fog due west of Writing on the wall (it's the English territory on the left side of my second T86 screenshot). Eh, I'll learn...eventually.

[roland of gilead]

probably does make more sense on consideration. Our 2 Capitals were fairly hard to take and you assume others are the same.

Well without Jongs.

[suboptimal]

Turn 89

No notifications. Chariot complete, start horseman. I start moving the units at Al southwest – they’ll embark there with the first set up upgraded quads. Russian galley has moved of the coast of the Tengger Sand Sea (desert east of Al). Embarked warrior will be in Al in two turns and should be able to fully heal in time for the invasion.

On Big Island I buy a settler at Under African Skies. The builder moves towards Graceland and the now-fully healed slinger heads south. It’ll act as the escort for the trip to ‘C’. To the south Confucius disembarks. It’s a shame Confucius isn’t, say, the swordsman:




I’ll have to follow along for a bit and see where it goes.

Over at Linear B I think England wants me to move out of the way. My galley is surrounded by English ships on three sides (didn’t get a screenshot). Two quads and galley, with one of the quads right next to the city. I move out, heading east. I find the borders of the Phoenician capital of Cuneiform:




Just like at Wodin I am blocked from further progress east by their borders. I’ll turn north and see what I can find, but not stray too far. There’s pillaging to be had here. That Cothon is generating 88. Galley in the strait is met by a bireme:




I shuffle off to the north in the name of “scouting” . Woden has yet to start walls at Wodin. Keep that up. Southern galley finds Australian borders:




Based on the great people city list that is the most recently founded Australian city.

No new gossip. Going through the diplo screens it appears that Russia has a DoF with England. Australia and Japan have no such agreements. Roland, you’re also the only one in Monarchy. Everyone else is in Oligarchy right now.

One question – could you post a picture of the current state of your civics tree? You didn’t post one after completing Divine Right – one of the two is Feudalism but what’s the other one?

[roland of gilead]

Turn 90

was hoping we would start the era countdown but no such luck. Hopefully next turn.

Everyone wants to be our friend.




I didn't accept either but you can always offer on your turn sub we can have a wee chat about diplomacy today perhaps. Obviously Phonecia can do one but maybe we do team up with someone probably not Russia though.

petra has 4 charges in it.

I actually need to delay it finishing by 1 turn or it will grab this tile 1 turn before getting it naturally.



Up in the NW i found the camp. No pic unfortunately. I also started retreating some troups back to the core for defense in upcoming war.

The other civic revealed was Civil service. I will hard tech that at some point.

[Jabah]

Cities in the diplo list must be tradable so can't be capital, must be 100% loyal and not damaged (not sure about the last one). A captured city state (or a city under attack) is likely not tradable for a few turns ?

[roland of gilead]

Yeah they won't be 100% loyal for a start.

[suboptimal]

It'd figure that I sleep in after a late night an my turn comes around in the midst of diplo offerings.

Regarding Phoenicia, I think my galleys on two shores plus the fact that they are in a 2v1 might have them a little jumpy about our intentions, especially since we'd be coming from the other direction than the rest. We don't want a DoF here because it might short circuit the intended plan. I say we let that request (and any that follow) go silently into the night.

As for Russia, CMF probably saw my quadrireme fleet, knows where Mercenaries is in the tree and knows that I'm close. However, I don't think a DoF is good here for three reasons:

- a DoF with them clearly indicates to Phoenicia/Norway that they will be in a 3v1. After all, Russia is a belligerent in that war and has a DoF with Archduke.
- At some point in the not-to-distant-future we might want to take Shikishima, either as a possession or to liberate it.
- If CMF puts a settler onto Big Island there wouldn't be anything we could do about it.

However, unlike Phoenicia I think you can send back the prototypical 1-for-1 "we mean you no harm" trade. We're not at the point in the game where the gossip will show others that we are trading (AFAIK) and should keep CMF pacified for the time being.

Since this is an open discussion if they've duplicated their diplo requests with me I'll let them silently pass while we discuss.

Jabah, thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware that cities without 100% loyalty weren't tradeable.

[roland of gilead]

I agree with that. certainly for now.

What i maybe see some value in is at least 1 if not 2 dof before we go to war. Just before.

We don't want them seeing Jongs and we end up 3 for 1.

If we had DOF with both teams we could really cement our strength across those 30 turns.

we may though just be letting them get to their strong points unhindered by doing that.

few turns to decide.

[suboptimal]

OK....I've opened the save and both Woden and Ljubljana have requested DoFs from me. I'm going to play the save except for looking at those requests to allow for some discussion.

[roland of gilead]

Phonecia and Norway are somewhat early game civs. Their time is now and they are in a pitch battle.

Russia and Australia are both really strong civs coming into power mid game.

The Archduke and Kaiser are the strongest team and compliment each other well and have civs to match abilities.

it is perhaps a shame we aren't in a position to take out one of the latter 2 now but hey ho that's the way it goes.