[SPOILERS] Roland and Suboptimal Team Up

[suboptimal]

At some point I need to get Limes in for walls. I also remembered that I once again forgot that Maritime Industries doesn't double jong production. That means I'll be relying on faith unless I go for Naval Tradition and Press Gangs first. That might be the better move right now vs. going to Divine Right for the 6-slot government. I'd complete it on Turn 102/103 which would give me time for some infrastructure at Al (like a temple) or just get out some more galleys for home defense.

[roland of gilead]

If not for that tornado i would have the inspiration for naval Tradition.

[suboptimal]

Turn 91

Open the save to a notification that an unmet city-state has been defeated. Based on empire scores that seems to be Kaiser and gossip confirms that he took Mohenjo-Daro. I can purchase a missionary and Woden & Ljubljana have both repeated their requests for a DoF. This time I open the diplo window and click “Goodbye”.

Mercenaries is at one turn to completion. I switch to Naval Tradition and will work towards unlocking Press Gangs rather than Monarchy. That’ll take twelve turns at my current rate.

At Al the land units swap positions. Quad #4 is complete and leaves the city because #3 is still there. No sign of interlopers. Units at the coast sit tight. In the strait SW of China my galley advances two tiles towards Wodin and then moves back to its original position. I’ll keep an eye out here while the rest of the fleet gets ready. On Big Island the hill wines get a plantation. With the exception of Diamonds I’ve got two excess amenities in all my cities. I was going to hook up the iron with the last charge but I think I’ll use that for the salt. That’ll get a bit more into Under African Skies as well as more yields empire-wide, at least for a little while Settler & slinger move west, two turns to settle. Fifty ways gained a population and it’s working the wines. It’ll pick up the bananas next turn so I unlock the marsh citizen so it moves over once the tile is grabbed.

Down in Australia it looks like Confucius has a bit of company:




I don’t know if the archer is where they’re trying to get or not, but they’ve moved out towards the coast. They could settle in place right where they are but that’s awfully exposed. . Confucius moves into the sugar swamp to check things out. That reveals the city to the east as Illmatic, which based on the city list is MPTF’s capital. I finish the turn on the open plains to the NE of the sugar with the intent to embark next turn. There’s a little spit of land that goes north but it doesn’t look interesting. On the other side of Australia my galley moves SW and finds Yerevan:




There are two Amani’s present, Kaiser and CMF each have three envoys, MPTF and Archduke one. They want me to train a swordsman. Give me a few turns. That quadrireme will be an issue so I’ll need to turn around and retreat in that direction for now (but I’m out of movement).

North of Phoenicia my galley continues exploring. I move one tile and find a bit of a skirmish, with an injured English quadrireme on the turtles and a bireme guarding the Cothon. I move along and reveal the capital more fully.




That’s a Commercial Hub going in NE of the city. For future reference the capital can be targeted from four coastal tiles.

Ljubljana and Woden both lost 3 last turn. Wonder if it was a cultural city-state that got eaten (Mohenjo-Daro, perhaps?) Ljubljana also spent close to 200 last turn and gained about 30 milpower. Archduke will have Gaius Duilus in two turns – he forms a fleet out of a naval unit upon retirement.

[roland of gilead]

TURN 92.

Cracking quest Yervan. not happening too soon.



Phoenicia have a deal for me. Not interested but this is probably a tester of our attitude. Consider offering a counter offer of 1 gold for it but nt sure if that locks us into peace. More civ 4 thinking probably.



Up in the NW my worst fears come true. Back on the defensive here. I fortify the warrior and retreat the spear. I expect the warrior will have to run too.



Petra next turn. This will boost my income and research nicely.



Convert Goldson which boosts culture to 39 per turn.

[suboptimal]

A counteroffer doesn't lock anyone into peace - all trade deals are cancelled on the outbreak of war. However, in the larger "meta scheme" a 1 gold offer (1 for 1) typically is a "we mean you no harm" message and, well, we do mean them a bit of harm in about 10 turns. I wouldn't offer them anything back. I likely have a few offers waiting for me as well but remain content to be silent.

That swordsman in the north is a pain in the ass. You won't be able to do much about it unless you get an archer or two or a quad in the area. Find somewhere to retreat to until you can get your own sword up there.

What's giving the 2 desert yield at Glen Kamara?

[roland of gilead]

A counteroffer doesn't lock anyone into peace - all trade deals are cancelled on the outbreak of war.  However, in the larger "meta scheme" a 1 gold offer (1 for 1) typically is a "we mean you no harm" message and, well, we do mean them a bit of harm in about 10 turns.  I wouldn't offer them anything back.  I likely have a few offers waiting for me as well but remain content to be silent. 

That swordsman in the north is a pain in the ass.  You won't be able to do much about it unless you get an archer or two or a quad in the area.  Find somewhere to retreat to until you can get your own sword up there. 

What's giving the 2 desert yield at Glen Kamara?

my first great wall. I had a free turn while i delayed petra to get better tiles. I actually think my 2 free tiles from petra may be desert hills. That wee gold sad desert tile will be a great tile next turn.

yeah i have a couple of archers advancing and i will pick my spot to defend with archers behind. 

I didn't offer anything back and won't. I thought it wouldn't matter but frankly i need gold more than a luxury anyway.

[roland of gilead]

Did you send a 15 15 trade? if not do you want me to?

[suboptimal]

Hold off on that thought. Russia has settled on Big Island.

Turn 92

Any offers from Norway/Phoenicia this turn? Yes. I’ve got one from Ljubljana. If I had to guess, because he has surplus, he’s offering me something similar to China – mercury for gold.




Hey, that looks familiar! I refuse it and move on with the turn.

On Big Island we’ve got a problem – CMF settled a city in the fog on his most recent turn:




It’s southwest of the (3-charge) builder and has booted my swordsman to the northeast. The spot I was going to settle ‘C’ on (where my swordsman is standing) is invalid. I’m going to settle on the marked location and then sort out what I want to do here (Campus NE of the swordsman). I start moving the warrior at Under African Skies down and the slinger at Fifty starts moving to a point between the two cities. To the south Confucius embarks and will go around the Australian borders. At Yerevan the barbarian quadrireme didn’t attack my galley. I get out of there nonetheless, taking the easterly path and find a second one in the fog. Fortunately I can get far enough away where it can’t pursue and shoot.

North of Phoenicia I run into an oceanic dead end but reveal Hieratic in the process:




I’ll backtrack to the area NW of Cuneiform and then hang out until war is declared. Check the strait, nothing going on there.

I make a change and am going to go for Divine Right and Monarchy first – the greater flexibility of the 6-slot government is more useful to me than Press Gangs at this juncture.

Roland, what, if anything, do we want to do here? As I see it that city is a big threat to us maintaining our hold on Big Island. We’d have enough gold on Turn 96 to upgrade that other warrior. It should be possible to take that city with just two swords. I don’t know about the viability of a limited war – I don’t know if Russia/Australia would cede the cities or otherwise peace out with us if we took just those two and stopped.

A galaxy brained idea would be to DoF Norway/Phoenicia and take the whole fleet straight across the map and take out Russia/Australia instead, leaving Red/White to fight Blue/Purple and keep each other in check. I think Woden/Ljubljana would still be interested in that DoF as they’re in a really rough spot if we declared on them. In that case we’d take Shikishima and the Big Island settlement en route to anything coastal in Russia/Australia. Australia, I think, is particularly vulnerable given their military situation, +100% for ten turns notwithstanding. The first two jongs and units would reach (and likely take) Shikishima on Turn 99 with the other jongs catching up on Turn 100 and the quads on Turn 101 or 102.

Here are what I see as the pros/cons of each idea:

Attack Phoenicia/Norway
+ They already have issues on the other side of their territory and likely can’t afford a two front war.
+ They’re close, allowing close supply lines and easy reinforcement
+ It takes out our closest opposition
- What’s the CMF snowball situation?
- Leaves two easily capturable city-states on the table for now.

Russia/Australia
+ They’re the leaders.
+ CMF, at 11 cities, is at risk of getting a huge snowball going.
+ Shikishima and his Big Island city secure the center of the map for us
+ CMF won’t be able to defend an empire as distributed as his appears to be.
- We leave our closest neighbors intact.
+/- Keeps us out of potential conflict with Red/White

Who do we view as the bigger threat – Russia/Australia or Norway/Phoenicia?

Another question – my income will be mostly wiped out once I upgrade four quads to jongs (it’d be 5-10 per turn). Do you think we’d be better off faith buying quad #6 and saving 310 for two upgrades or holding off and faith buying a jong on Turn 100 and needing only 165 to upgrade the remaining quad? I’m leaning towards the latter only because it puts a jong on the map right after we take our first coastal city instead of waiting for .

If we want to go after CMF/MPTF then I think we both send Phoenicia/Norway a 7-for-7 offer next turn and DoF them on Turn 100.

[roland of gilead]

Turn 93

Lot's going on.

I think the decision is pretty simple. That island is ours and we simply can't have Russia buying cossacks on it or anywhere near us ideally. Those 2 horses are no doubt part of why he went there. 11 cities is also worrying.

If we can get into a situation where we are hovering up Russia/Australia while the other 2 damage each other that's pretty good.


so to that end i send these two deals.




Petra is in with a nice boost to my optics and in better news it picked up the perfect two tiles. in two turns that middle tile i am working will be 2 1 8 4 a 15 yield tile.... not bad.



Up in the northwest the Sword attacked my warrior but did very little damage. I stay in place as i get a promotion if it attacks again.



Settle this city next turn and redid the pins. Going to lift the fish for the harbor inside for safety and so i can get the two wonders down quickly and in peace. Also want that Farm triangle for both cities up here. Leaves the opportunity open to build a canal as well.



At Tav i plan to harvest the swamp and get up to pop 7 and put a holy site down. Need to get my faith up. Finishing the harbour and lighthouse first. Need trade routes to get Petra growing.



At goldson i start on a Commercial hub but will switch to settler with the policy next turn.



Capital is 3 turns from growing to 7 and can lay down a commercial hub.

[roland of gilead]

Sub on buying a Quad or Jong i think Quad perhps.

You can see above my gold is about start going up all over the place. I think to 50-60 per turn over the next 10 turns. Also going to clear that camp at some point.

Sure i need some for myself but can also provide you with a decent amount hopefully.

Maybe we map out our gold a bit. i have 177 right now and make 30 per turn and that is rising.

what do you need and when.

You are also bound to pillage gold.