[SPOILERS] Woden and ljubljana like boats

[williams482]

So I'm running the +100% card and have another +50% from the Cothon. I was at 55/65 last turn (iirc), so at 20 hpt I should have been at 105/65, which, subtracting out 30 hammers from the Cothon and policy card, seems to give 10h of overflow. Would that 10h then get added to the base production on the following turn, and therefore boosted by the policy card and Cothon? If not, maybe I'll just end up at 60/65 next turn and this will all make sense, although it'd be pretty lame to lose the effects of the card/Cothon on those 10h for no adequately justified mechanical reason .

According to what the developers claimed and what I've seen in-game, production multipliers are applied to overflow. I guess we'll see next turn if that holds here.

[Woden]

The quad starts working on the spearman. We have to be careful here as there is a sword lurking in the fog. Last known location is pinned and that is from a few turns ago. Warrior will probably defog a bit and maybe see if he can draw the sword to the city.

I have to wait a bit to play my turn until I'm done with some other commitments, but before I forget, things are actually looking pretty good for the "kill the camp with my settler" plan, if you're still open to that, especially if your warrior helps out with the spear. That could give me the ES breathing room I need to stay in Oligarchy, if we're worried enough about sub that that's worth doing. That means one less diplo slot compared to going to Monarchy and running Oligarchic Legacy (if that were an option), but that's not a huge loss honestly and might be smarter than trying to stop Jongs with unboosted caravels.

Have been planning on you grabbing the camp with the settler. I pretty much guarantees me not getting a golden age but it would have been a tough lift if we weren't threatened with war and now is pretty much a no-go, need my resources elsewhere. 

Unboosted caravels can handle themselves against Jongs/Frigates (55 CS vs 45 CS (melee)). Usually can take out one with 2 caravels. Not sure if the +4CS  from Oligarchy warrants staying out of a 6-slot government.

[ljubljana]

Turn 93 - Phoenicia

TAD's getting salty...



So that's how it's going to be then. Okay .



These ships are dead, dead, dead, and I don't think TAD has even a chance of taking out one of my boats in return unless I mess up pretty badly. If those ships in the west had been built at a city with a Royal Navy Dockyard, I couldn't have done this - they'd have one more point of movement, would be one tile NE of their current position, and could two-shot the trapping bireme. That's honestly what I was expecting to see when I loaded up the save, but I guess not. Oh well. The trapping bireme is the one I bought at Cuneiform, too - buying ships is almost never the right move, but I think this is the rare instance where it has paid off. My GA is rushing up here at its best rate to hopefully get 2 ES from one of these kills - I'll surround the last galley with biremes and keep it alive until the GA gets there to make that happen.



In the northwest, recall that last turn my bireme sortie to kill Kaiser's quad trapped a TAD galley, preventing it from retreating more than one tile. This turn, those same biremes highroll and kill it. That means Kaiser's second quad is now also doomed unless there are more ships in the fog, with only 4 movement points against the bireme's 5 and no prayer of surviving the next turn if it stays and fights.

In the south, TAD appears to be retreating, but they might be heading for Geneva where their six remaining boats would be a serious threat. I didn't pursue with the biremes at Akkad this turn because I couldn't get to the chokepoints in the south safely, but I probably will next turn if the ships keep going. I pinned the critical tiles on the approach to Geneva, which there luckily are not too many of:



Would you be willing and able to occupy these tiles with longboats if TAD tries to turn south? Unfortunately, I have no biremes in the area and can't do that myself. What I can do though is follow TAD with biremes if they try this and slam into their boats from behind while you hold them off at the chokepoints. I don't know how close your longships are to promoting, but they're probably not too far away judging by their health and the amount of time they've spent in the field, right? If so, I don't think you'd have any trouble holding them off for the two or so turns my biremes would need to catch up. Naturally, if TAD just goes back home, we should probably just follow with our boats and try to trap them there while looking for pillaging opportunities.

I didn't send TAD a peace offer this turn. They can come to me with an offer if they want to save their ships and dockyards.

[ljubljana]

According to what the developers claimed and what I've seen in-game, production multipliers are applied to overflow. I guess we'll see next turn if that holds here.

I did get the one-turn bireme in Cuneiform this turn, so it looks like it was the interface lying to me after all and the overflow did get counted, at least to some extent .

Have been planning on you grabbing the camp with the settler. I pretty much guarantees me not getting a golden age but it would have been a tough lift if we weren't threatened with war and now is pretty much a no-go, need my resources elsewhere. 

Unboosted caravels can handle themselves against Jongs/Frigates (55 CS vs 45 CS (melee)). Usually can take out one with 2 caravels. Not sure if the +4CS  from Oligarchy warrants staying out of a 6-slot government.

Cool, I'll probably found Oracle Bones right on that tile after I clear the camp then. It's weaker than some of the other tiles to the south, but it's on fresh water, is very defensible, fits better with other settlements on this island (which can then also go on fresh water to the south), and is both near the volcano and on the floodable river for 4 total ES. That should let me found Jiahu at the stronger southern spot rather than off in the tundra.

I'm not sure about staying out of Monarchy either. Every single one of my cities except Demotic is housing-capped now that Mohenjo-Daro died, so although I've been publicly regretting picking Republican Legacy for the last few turns I actually badly need it as soon as I can slot it in, and may even build Limes walls in most of my core soon for the cheap housing. It's also worth the Castles eureka, which is pretty significant given that upgrading a courser is the one easy way I have available to boost my cities' defensive strength. At least I'll have Great Admirals and sub probably won't, so maybe it's not a big deal to not have Oligarchy as well.

How terrible an idea would it be to switch back to Oligarchy if someone attacks when we're not ready and we end up needing it? Probably a pretty bad one - I've never actually experienced anarchy in Civ6, but from what I gather it's no laughing matter and not to be idly contemplated.

Oh, here's another idea - after this next GA, Free Inquiry will no longer be an option, and I'll probably go for a Renaissance Dark Age. The impetus for that idea was to stack Isolationism with all the lighthouses going up at around the same time, but that also will unlock Twilight Valor - if we end up in a hot war with caravels vs Jongs and can hold out that long, that could help turn the tide.

[ljubljana]

I also went ahead and renamed that warrior on the southern island, a first for me. Believe it or not, that's actually my starting warrior, who found a barb camp on turn 2 that almost ended this game before it began, dropped to 1 health two different times at Hieratic, once when the other warrior died clearing out a camp there and a second time when they barely held on thanks to Discipline to keep the settler alive, was my only military unit on t38 when my military score was 2, put Akkad under siege and then was the deciding attack that took the city, and now looks likely to survive this war after a long period of being trapped and almost left for dead on this deserted jungle island. They are now known as "Ulysses", in honor of their epic journey .

[ljubljana]

I do think there's a decent chance on this coming turn that TAD will bite the bullet and offer white peace with Akkad ceded, since that's the only way to save their trapped ships. If TAD does that, do you think we take it? I'm leaning towards yes to look less appetizing to sub and reduce the odds of this turning into a game-long enmity (though it's possible that ship has already sailed). I'm open to arguments in the other direction too, though, and am only asking proactively now so that I don't have to worry about keeping Civ6 running with the deal window open if we have to talk about it tomorrow or in the near future.

[Woden]

How terrible an idea would it be to switch back to Oligarchy if someone attacks when we're not ready and we end up needing it? Probably a pretty bad one - I've never actually experienced anarchy in Civ6, but from what I gather it's no laughing matter and not to be idly contemplated.

Really terrible, no science and culture for 3 turns. Not even sure you get gold and production. Not worth it for +4 CS.

Oh, here's another idea - after this next GA, Free Inquiry will no longer be an option, and I'll probably go for a Renaissance Dark Age. The impetus for that idea was to stack Isolationism with all the lighthouses going up at around the same time, but that also will unlock Twilight Valor - if we end up in a hot war with caravels vs Jongs and can hold out that long, that could help turn the tide.

Talking about lighthouses, are you running Veterancy for the 30% production to harbors and buildings? If we get peace, it mightbe good to get a bunch of your lighthouses built and get a bunch of trade routes.

[Woden]

I do think there's a decent chance on this coming turn that TAD will bite the bullet and offer white peace with Akkad ceded, since that's the only way to save their trapped ships. If TAD does that, do you think we take it? I'm leaning towards yes to look less appetizing to sub and reduce the odds of this turning into a game-long enmity (though it's possible that ship has already sailed). I'm open to arguments in the other direction too, though, and am only asking proactively now so that I don't have to worry about keeping Civ6 running with the deal window open if we have to talk about it tomorrow or in the near future.

Yes, take peace if offered. We can then shift our focus east, either to face sub/roland or help sub/roland out against CMF. Also would give you time to build lighthouses and trade routes and settle more cities.

[ljubljana]

I'm not running Veterancy yet, because, uh, I've had to frantically build ships instead. That's a great point though - I think a round of lighthouse builds will be my next priority in most of these cities as soon as I feel safe on ships and am not critically behind on other infra (which I am right now, with a trade route still unused, multiple luxuries unconnected for lack of builders, and Geneva in particular still working mostly unimproved tiles).

[Woden]

Quick report before you play your turn, suboptimal sent me a 7-for-7 deal. If I am reading this right, he means a friendship in 7 turns and he is going after CMF, maybe? I think we might have dodged a bullet when CMF settled his city last turn. Doesn't mean we are safe, he may change is mind due to PBEM18 but I think we might not be his first target.