As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer

Create an account  

 
[SPOILERS] Woden and ljubljana like boats

Turn 102 - Phoenicia



Wow, our votes actually mattered! Final total was 10 to 6, so if we had voted for no GS points, we would have ended up with no GA points for 30 turns! Thankfully, TAD and Kaiser were willing to spend diplo favor to put us over the top here. I'm on track for a GA in 5 turns now - it'll be a close call as to whether TAD or I get the next one (Leif Erickson), but I'll definitely land one Medieval GA at least, and could have a shot at the first Renaissance GA after TAD takes the other two Medieval ones.



Looks like we lost a tiebreaker on the mercury, though frown. The turtles actually is still worth something for me at least, as Runic should pick up a second source with its first border pop.



My western attack force runs into a Russian Great Scout. I decide to just kill it, since my ships can't really hide from it or go around it...I've now given MPF some amount of warning, but at least I've successfully managed to hide the size of my strike force. For all they know, Ovid here may have just stumbled upon a scouting bireme. I do expect MPF to redirect at least some of their navy over here now, but they'll have to get here pretty quickly - I'm on track to start working on the city's health in just 2-3 turns now.

EDIT: Looks like MPF passed the turn before CMF posted in their thread. Since MPF moves before CMF and wouldn't have been notified about it, I'm cautiously optimistic that they might have missed Ovid's disappearing act this turn and not started moving ships over yet. MPF has been crash-building ships, so they can probably hold me off here if they're not out of position, but I think it's a decent bet that most of their boats are streaming over towards the Jong rush rather than towards their eastern islands.



I see that we've found a significant contingent of CMF's navy. Vladimir Monomakh still stands as of this turn, but that probably just reflects sub's swords disembarking - I expect it to be gone next turn. I suppose the right time to attack is whenever the Jongs start to engage these ships, which I expect will occur in 3 or so turns. Whether our attack should involve trying to crack the walls of Mikasa or trying to surround CMF's navy, and whether we should offer CMF a peace deal once we show our ships, is a question I think we could go either way on.

How many turns do you think it'll be until you finish Machinery? I'll probably have to switch off it next turn if I'm going to wait for the boost. Now that TAD and Kaiser have both passed me in science, I'd like to do that if I can swing it, though I know it might not actually be feasible. If you still have to go through most of Apprenticeship, I guess I don't have much choice but to ignore the boost here, since Cartography before 126 is as mandatory as mandatory can be.
Reply

T102-Vikings
I am 7 turns from Machinery with the boost...
   

Not sure if it is worth waiting but may give you time to build quadriremes. Ideally, we only need them when the DoF ends with TAD, so we may be able to delay it. Also, is there anyway for you to steal Leif Ericson? He grants ocean sailing without Cartography. 

Anyways, I am 4 to 5 turns from settling my southern cities. My first missionary is going to put a charge into Loki then sail to old Akkad to convert it. Second missionary (in 2 turns) will convert Loki, Thor, and maybe one of the southern cities. For my normal age, I did take the dedication that grants 2 era points for converting a new city, which should get me enough points for a golden age, just with conversions. I am going to try and convert all our western coastal cities first to make it harder to convert them to Kaiser's religion, protecting against Crusade as best we can. 

Five turns until the battle ram is finished at Hod. I am undecided if we should engage CMF's ships hanging out in the choke point to weaken his forces or do we wait until Jongs show up, then attack when he can't redeploy his forces? What do you think?
Reply

Turn 103 - Phoenicia



Okay, so marco is prepared for me. Two bireme attacks per turn is not going to break this if there's more ships behind it, as their 400 milpower indicates that there probably are. I think I'm going to have to try a flanking move by going around the Tethys Ocean to the north, and, if that doesn't work, probably retreat back to Akkad in shame lol. Still, there's nothing wrong with forcing them to build, and then tying down, an entire navy on this side of the world just to hold this attack off - seems like a better return on my biremes' time than simply sitting around in Akkad waiting for the DoFs to end.

(April 11th, 2021, 17:15)Woden Wrote: Five turns until the battle ram is finished at Hod. I am undecided if we should engage CMF's ships hanging out in the choke point to weaken his forces or do we wait until Jongs show up, then attack when he can't redeploy his forces? What do you think?

Do battering rams boost melee ship attacks as well? I think we should wait until Jongs show up and let sub bloody CMF's forces, then either swoop in to cut them off or go for Mikasa. Not sure how much we'll actually be able to weaken their forces much with all those ports right there to heal off the damage - I think if we attack now, we're more likely to weaken ourselves instead.

(April 11th, 2021, 17:15)Woden Wrote: I am 7 turns from Machinery with the boost...

Not sure if it is worth waiting but may give you time to build quadriremes. Ideally, we only need them when the DoF ends with TAD, so we may be able to delay it. Also, is there anyway for you to steal Leif Ericson? He grants ocean sailing without Cartography. 

My instincts are to wait for the boost...that's a lot of beakers I don't want to flush down the drain, especially now that TAD/Kaiser have taken a pretty decisive-looking research lead. Here's what that would mean, though:



Machinery T110, Square Rigging T120, Cartography t128, which is slightly too late for caravel upgrades before the DoFs lapse. I do have 16 bpt in Cothons coming online in the next 10 turns, though, plus a few more from pop growth and etc., which is probably just enough to shave off the 3 or so extra turns we need. With that in mind, I think waiting should be fine - there isn't much urgency to getting SR or Cartography earlier than that, since I'm not about to hit the niter cap anytime soon and don't really need either tech until war is upon us.

As for Lief Erickson, TAD finished a bunch of dockyards this turn, so I think we're going to miss him frown. Doesn't that ocean sailing bonus only come online if we retire him, though? If so, I don't think TAD is likely to give up the strength bonus to take advantage of it.
Reply

(April 11th, 2021, 18:29)ljubljana Wrote:
(April 11th, 2021, 17:15)Woden Wrote: Five turns until the battle ram is finished at Hod. I am undecided if we should engage CMF's ships hanging out in the choke point to weaken his forces or do we wait until Jongs show up, then attack when he can't redeploy his forces? What do you think?

Do battering rams boost melee ship attacks as well? I think we should wait until Jongs show up and let sub bloody CMF's forces, then either swoop in to cut them off or go for Mikasa. Not sure how much we'll actually be able to weaken their forces much with all those ports right there to heal off the damage - I think if we attack now, we're more likely to weaken ourselves instead.

As far as I know, they still do. I guess I haven't checked to see if they recently changed it but i did just watch a recent video of Potato McWhiskey's "save my civ" series were he explained why you build rams instead of siege towers and a reason was that ships can use rams but not towers. I will have to test it to make sure.

Quote:As for Lief Erickson, TAD finished a bunch of dockyards this turn, so I think we're going to miss him frown. Doesn't that ocean sailing bonus only come online if we retire him, though? If so, I don't think TAD is likely to give up the strength bonus to take advantage of it.

He would have Cartograph by the time he attacks anyways, so probably not that big of deal.
Reply

By the way, I was checking to see if my other game has moved along and saw that the turn is still on you. Are you waiting on any other feedback form me?
Reply

Oh, whoops, nice catch! Should be fixed now. I had to restart my computer because the new launcher stopped working (naturally) and I guess I forgot to re-open PYDT lol.
Reply

Mid-turn discussion

   

CMF came asking for straight peace. What is your opinion? I really don't think we will be able to take Mikasa with galleys and it looks like he is confident enough to leave these forces over by our approach. The question really is, do we want to keep CMF distracted or do we want CMF to hurt suboptimal, hopefully dragging them both into a drawn out war with little gain? I actually think staying at war with us will help CMF focus on defending his home instead of building up to retake his cities and hurt suboptimal. What are your thoughts?
Reply

I went and played my turn, declining CMF's peace offer. I figure we can go back when we decide to make peace.
Reply

Yeah, now that CMF and marco have passed us in combined milpower, I don't think there's much chance of us taking cities from either without some kind of lucky break in the form of sub drawing forces away. On the other hand, I'm not sure what we really lose by staying at war...CMF was solidly leading the game before suboptimal took those cities, and if we free CMF up to retake them they'll probably be solidly in the lead again. On the third hand, though, if suboptimal takes peace with CMF in exchange for ceding those cities, which might be a likely outcome once the Jong offense stalls out, and we end up in a 1v1 with CMF at the same time as our DoFs lapse, we could really be in some trouble. I think I'm fine with making peace if you think it's the best move. It's a pretty close call though, so if you think we should stay at war, I'm fine with that too.

Want me to re-propose to CMF or accept if they sent me an offer? Or do you just want to wait nd re-visit this in a few turns based on further developments in this theater?
Reply

I say let's revisit it in a couple of turns. Maybe suboptimal can make some gains against CMF. My though/hope is that CMF and suboptimal really go at it and waste a bunch of resources fighting while we improve our infrastructure. CMF might not go on the offensive if we continue to bug him, therefore, might be able to have a defensive force while improving his cities too if he feels he has enough to defend.
Reply



Forum Jump: