[PB59] Pindicator's One Thread to Rule Them All

[pindicator]

It's taking all my self restraint to not say "I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO" to Charriu in the tech thread. I just downloaded the 2.0.3 update again in case I mixed something up, installed it to the mod folder, renamed it to 2.0 (by the way, another stupid and pointless step that only invites trouble), and it still crashes to desktop when I try to connect. So I'm going to keep my I FUCKING TOLD YOU SOs here and try and stay civil in the thread, but there was no need for this update mid-game.

[pindicator]

Turn 059, in the Reckoning of the Shire

Amicalola turned back. I guess he's thinking more about how my wounded warrior can harass his lightly guarded empire and less about how his spear can harass my lightly guarded empire. If he's going to give me more room then I'm going to take it.




Should clean up the bear on the interturn. That would only leave the last bear in the jungles to the east. Fog busting is a little sketchy now, and I'll need a couple more units or cities to cover all the patches. But monuments currently get priority. You can see the 1-turned monument in Brandybuck - and thankfully I did remember to turn off No Growth there. The capital also started its monument this turn, and it will comfortably finish that in 3 turns, right before it grows to size 7.

Up to #3 in Crop Yield. Hopefully laying down some cottages will help the GNP.


As an aside for the tech thread issues I guess I'll just put my opinion here now that I've slept on it and I'm a little more level than last post. Key point that I believe should be followed is: Mid-game patching should only be done as a last resort. That means game-breaking bugs and egregious balance issues only. If somebody gets a civ/leader and that civ/leader doesn't have the correct UU or UB or traits, then yes we should patch because the person who picked that civ/leader is getting impacted. If we have a bug which gives one player a significant strategic advantage over others then patch. If there is a bug found that is likely to crash the game then we should patch that. Based on what I have read in the tech thread, it is possible that Charriu's point #2 rises to this extreme. I do not believe his point #1 rises to key significant advantage, because you have to be in game the same time someone else is having combat. I can see an argument made that this is a significant strategic advantage, so I'm willing to give some slack on it.

Now the other issue, which I think is more egregious, is the naming convention. Keeping the same name of the mod for different iterations is just asking for trouble. In a way, this is leading Charriu to do more mid-game patching because he has backed himself into a corner for the number of versions that can be out at one time. If every version of the mod is recognized by the name CloseToHome_2.0 then you can't release a new version while another game is going on without it affecting the people playing that game. Perhaps his idea about naming mod versions after the game they are played will work fine, but it seems simpler to me to keep the minor updates as their own release name as was done for RtR updates.

[pindicator]

Turn 060, in the Reckoning of the Shire

Bear: 1, Me: 2 - the bear attacked in the interturn and lost.





How many more turns can I keep this up for?

The capital is unhappy at 7 for 3 more turns because of the settler whip that turned into Chubb, so we are giving the Fish to Took for a few turns. Once we hit size 8 we take the fish back and use it to 5-turn settlers ... I think. Maybe I let Took grow more and take slightly slower settlers? Maybe I pump workers out of Took. I am getting a worker out of Brandybuck right now because there are no more tiles to work and no free worker turns for the next 5 turns.

Turning on the science next turn; Writing should be done in 5.

[pindicator]

Turn 062, in the Reckoning of the Shire




Changed up some plans.  Took will be 2-pop whipping the library and then putting out the great person.  This leaves the capital able to pump out settlers for a while and then when the academy is done the good spots should be about taken up and the food can be shifted back to other spots.

Techs I want to pick up next are Iron Working, Sailing, Masonry, and Archery.  I really want to put a city on the eastern stone/cow/fish spot but doing that without at least an archer there seems like asking for trouble.

[pindicator]

Turn 063, in the Reckoning of the Shire

Micro plans continuing, and chipping away bit by bit on the plan to get to turn 75.




The most intricate parts of the micro right now are coming from the tile shuffle over granaries completing. Because I'm not finishing the granaries at the most ideal times I'm having to use the No-Growth trick to get extra food in the granary, and that leads to me using some interesting tiles. Last turn I had the Fish with the capital to reach size 8 while Took was on No Growth to get to 24/24 in the box without wasting food by going over. (I checked just giving the Fish to Took both turns; it wasn't as good as hitting No Growth!) This turn the Fish goes to Took to shoot up ahead in growth, but next turn it goes back to the capital so I can hit 20 food-hammers per turn for making settlers.

Now it is Chubb's turn to get No-Growth. Because Chubb is at 19/24 food at the start of the turn, I brought a worker back west to make sure the Copper was finished this turn so we could work Pig + Copper and get as much out of +5 fpt as possible. I decided that with Took being stagnated to get out a settler EDIT: Great Scientist, we're going to take full advantage of the food and give the wheat to Chubb and grow Chubb all the way to size 7. At that size it will be putting out 13hpt and can get a couple axes out in a hurry if needed. Or it can 5-turn a couple settlers of its own and leave the capital to focus more on cottages down the line.

The big question I need to resolve next turn is whether I need to start another worker at Brandybuck next turn. Originally it was a no-brainer, but as i've scaled back my chopping plans I find that the issue is more of getting workers to the right spots efficiently rather than having enough worker-turns to get the tasks done. And so Brandbuck might instead be starting some defense. Especially with India's power spiking in the east. Assuredly these are just his first axes coming out, but I don't want to look too appealing of a target.

In any case, I think we divert to Archery next. I don't want to hook up the copper quite yet - I need some more warriors for cheap MPs (as you can see) and with how hammer crunched this start has been (and because I think I can get away with it), I'm going to delay connecting my copper for at least 5 more turns. Brandybuck possibly does a warrior next turn, if not the worker. There's also the fact that Brandybuck needs to be size 4 soon, otherwise I'm going to have an unworked cottage, and then size 5 for when the gold comes online on t71.




We've hit size 8 at the capital! I could start the settler this turn, but I'm going to wait a turn to get the work boat out first. I want to scout to the south and see if those islands are worth going for an early sailing, or if they're just 2c filler. But then the work boat is going to loop around east and be ready to hook up the Fish when I get my settler out there. Still debating whether or not my first settler goes all the way to the Fish; I really want to claim that spot! But it will need considerable worker support.

Funny enough, the other size 8 city is one of the neighbors I've met. The Ottomans are the next civ over past India, almost opposite me on the hypothetical wheel we're on.




Demos are looking much better. You can see where the focus on cottages and growth over expanding has helped my GNP. But we need to get settlers out now! Otherwise we will fall too far behind and invite our neighbors to snatch those border sites.

[Lewwyn]

Looks fun, Im glad that Cha is being exploited and is proving as useful as it is. I think the heavy food is a buff to the trait on this map even with the lux that is available.

[pindicator]

Looks fun, Im glad that Cha is being exploited and is proving as useful as it is. I think the heavy food is a buff to the trait on this map even with the lux that is available.

CHA was one of the reasons I picked the food start over the hammer start. (The other reason being that I didn't think to check on a wb-first start )

[pindicator]

Turn 064, in the Reckoning of the Shire

The Ottomans triple-whipped their capital (settler?) so we are the top city in the world now! 

I've left out Amicalola and the border for the last few turns, but it has become obvious that Amicalola has not taken any of the opportunities to snipe my wounded warrior.  Instead his spear has shadowed my warrior as I've explored the coast.  I've attempted to keep a respectful distance, not wanting to antagonize him into something he arguably should have done the first turn he met me.




Here it appears there could be a settler inbound for the area where his warrior is stationed so I did not advance again.  Instead I returned back, and I likely will just camp around the jungle.  I like that the jungle on this side is very barren.  There appears to be no reason for either of us to claim the area soon and so I can focus my efforts in the east.

Let's talk worker micro.  We've been giving tile micro plenty of love but the worker turns are going to get a little awkward and I want to talk about why
I'm doing what I'm doing.  Here's where the workers currently are.




Labels are by the order the workers came out.  A & B were working together to get all those cottages down for the capital.  They had just finished the plains hill mine as the capital hit size 8 and were why we're able to 5-turn settlers out of the capital now.  C & D were my two workers for Chubb and Took; they had just finished the Copper and now finished the cottage northeast of Chubb.  On this turn, E came out of Brandybuck and took the place of A, working with B to mine the grass hill for Took.  This hill is needed to get the library out quicker.  A now moves to the forest by Took to chop it into the library.

My philosophy has been that the city needs drive the worker micro.  That may sound simply put, but it's important to keep in mind that the tiles worked is the utmost importance.  Not worker efficiency.  Worker efficiency is nice, and it can be very elegant when done correctly, but that should only be sought after the city's tile needs have been met.  What good is improving a tile just so your worker doesn't waste a turn if that tile then sits unused for 20 turns?

When it comes to worker efficiency, I've found that rivers really dictate a lot about where a worker can effectively go.  Since roads are useless over rivers until Construction, it helps to keep your workers crossing rivers to an absolute minimum.  Or when they do cross rivers, combine it with other movement costs like moving onto hills or forests.  For this game there are two very long rivers which effectively cut the work area into thirds.




Currently I have 2 workers in the center 'orange' area and 3 workers in the left 'green' area.  This has met some early needs of improving Chubb and chopping the library out at Took, but I'm going to have to shift workers over to meet my next goals.  My next settler is going to be in the right 'magenta' area, and so I ideally want 2 workers to come east to improve that new city and get it running.  My gold is going to come under culture on turn 70 and I will want 2 workers there 2 improve it as quickly as possible.  Then we also have 2 hills to improve at Chubb so that when it hits size 7 it will be able to work 7 improved tiles.

Going back to my description of what I just did, you can see it's not efficient for me to move A across the worker into the green zone to chop the tree.  It's moving workers in the wrong direction from where they're going to need to be, and I already have 2 workers in that zone who are running out of things to do.  In fact, I'm going to need to move C back across the river into orange next turn, wasting a worker turn!  Why did I do this?  Because it sped up the library's completion by a turn in Took. This in turn speeds up the academy in the capital, which is a key part of my early game strategy.

Going forward, A is going to chop out that forset and then mine the grass hill by Took, but for Chubb's use.  Staying in the green zone, D will mine the western hill at Chubb and then likely connect the Copper on turn 71.  B is going to move into the blue zone next turn, and then B & C will go east.  I'm still working out the details there, but likely next turn they move NE-SE and build a road, then one lays down another cottage for the capital (hitting size 9 right after that settler), while the other chops the other chops a forest to go into a granary for the new city at the Sheep/Copper location.  Both workers then will move to improve the sheep and copper, then likely head north for the next settler.  And in the orange zone., E will be joined by F in 4 turns, and that new worker out of Brandybuck is going to be what gets the gold online.

[klops]

wow, size 8 is kinda impressive.

Love your explanation and visualisations, thanks!

[pindicator]

Turn 065, in the Reckoning of the Shire

I'm having way too much fun making these:




Writing done at end of turn, and the Library will start right away at Took. Working away on the next settler out of the capital, Chubb is growing onto good tiles as planned, and Brandybuck is building another worker. All according to plan.

I think I'm going to whip a settler out of Chubb instead of staying at size 7. This will mean our workers in the 'green' zone will have something to do, as they will need to road to the new city site at the marble. Speaking of the marble, do I settle on it for the 2h plant? Yeah, I probably do. But then I lose a grassland that can't be worked by any city. Plus we really don't get any use out of the ocean tiles. So maybe it's better to plant 1 tile off the coast, on the river? I should probably take the 2h plant.... right? And yet I don't think I want to.

Oh, and we have a work boat out. Decide I'm going to send this guy east, but I'll loop around horse-jungle island first. I might get a 2nd work boat out of Chubb next and then send that guy west, and those two will then be my contacts with the greater world.

What am I teching next?