[Mjmd #59] Sea Shanties!

[Mjmd]

So I couldn't find a good solo copy of the song, but luckily its the first track in this compilation, which in general is pretty good and this person has posted 6 total complication, so highly recommend if you need some work music.

TLDR: 1st song, but continue to listen if you want:




Settled 4th city of Cousin Jack and expenses suddenly jumped to -6gpt from -3. I think I got my first civac maintenance; I'll have to go back to my spreadsheet. Not super happy about city 4 on turn 52, but eh.



Next city is slotted for 'port ?' south of capital. Will help grow cottages and grab 2 food (dry rice: is that even a food on this map?). Worker near capital has a nice chop coming in right after it grows. I probably won't settle anymore mainland cities until after sailing and at least 1 island city. I have to do some simming with tech update.

I figured out who is beating me in food and I'm ok with it.

I was tied for 1st in food at 51 when I settled. Then Amica and TBS logged in and top went to 52. My uh 'suspicion' is that TBS playing Catherine (Imp/Cre) is at 52. BTW anything on top of that demo screenshot look familiar?

[Mjmd]

We voted for city count NOT to be tied to espionage right? I remember Mig thought it odd, but with 25 players I thought it made perfect sense. I think it is actually tied to espionage though.... Just realized because I met Charriu's neighbor!

Note I whipped capital before taking this, because I didn't know I was reporting this turn!



1st off TBS is a disgusting disgustingly good civ player playing a really fast combo. I'm fascinated how he will not crash. I'm very proud of my demo's in a 25 player field, but being 2nd in food that far behind a great player keeps  a guy humble.

2nd: Charriu got and immediately switched into Hinduism. Wonder if he was going for Oracle via that route. He will probably eventually go priesthood just to work a specialist anyways now. Shrines are so good on large maps (to take ). To note both my neighbors choose to slow their early game down, which is great for me. Should mean both have to delay sailing. Which is good because I'm pretty sure galley will have to go all the way from north to that southern island. Also northern island won't have a defender for a hot second.

3rd: I'm really trying to decide how much 1 turn faster sailing is worth. It would be a horribly inefficient whip in Whiskey and costs are going to go up in 2 turns when I settle 5th city. If I hadn't built that extra worker in Whiskey it would be a lot clearer, but whip would be at size 5 instead of 6, which would waste food and whip off a good tile. Waiting 1 turn means will be 6 > 4 and better for food. I may just not care about random bits of food and production though as blasphemous as that is. Would mean settling 1 turn sooner which means 1 turn extra gpt and galley starting long trip south sooner. I'll probably go for it if 5th city doesn't tank me too bad.

Oh right I met someone - to note shorter analysis for non neighbors.
Lazteuq playing (agg/Spi) Persia. Persia is an ok civ and I probably would have taken it first round. Can be aggressive, but its UB is early enough and actually does something economic so it isn't' the dregs. Speaking of dregs what about those traits! Aggressive on these large maps with updated 50% discount isn't horrible, but I would have snap sent this back unless it was 3rd round. Lazteuq did pretty well in PB51 his 1st (I think) pitboss, but struggled in PB56. Not sure why yet as I'm still playing, but I'm hoping for a stronger performance here. With that leader probably should be the beat down.

[Mjmd]

T59

1st off even the happy sounding songs really just mask how crappy this time period in history was for pretty much everyone involved. I figure I might as well get some happiness from them though.



2nd: I usually don't play this game with any alcohol in me, but sometimes it feels like I do. For those who actually remember what I write (HA!), you'll note I should have founded a city on T58..... Well T57 I played early in the turn moved settler down. T57 then had to be reloaded. Played later on moved settler down. Realized a bloody forest had grown on spot I wanted to settle!!! I had already moved though. It was probably correct still, but wish I had realized (I saw because Ramk had moved scout to there, but brain just didn't register....). So then I had a decision if I was going to settle T59 or wait 1 turn until 60. I wasn't going to wait two turns from 58, but 1 seemed more reasonable. This turn moved a warrior back in my territory to save on unit upkeep because I thought I wasn't going to work the gold and wasn't going to settle. Decided to settle and regret moving fog busting warrior..... I also had not done math on growth with worker already having completed road this turn, luckily it will still grow perfectly to size 2 so not punished there.

Anyways, settling city also kicked Ramks woody II scout to be eaten by the lion hopefully, I can then kill the lion and move SW turn after to fog bust.


-Capital has been on settler duty, but I think its going to do a worker next or maybe a granary. Will grow to 5 first. Have to decide what I'm doing with that corn which will require some micro.
-Whiskey has been on work boat duty. Hoping I produce enough I can eventually explore with one..... Charriu is out with an exploring work boat.
-Donkey just whipped its first settler and will be trying to grow it asap to get a settler for eastern tip I think (which is why corn micro needed). I thought about moving city 5 there, but there just isn't worker support and I have no road network. The 3 workers around Cousin Jack will be working on multiple things, but eventually a road network that way to speed a settler from Donkey.
Cousin Jack - working gold for this 1 turn. I think its better to go back to copper until it grows after this. Will grow in 5 turns that way with a granary done. I think its going to produce a settler at size 6 for southern island.
Grog - will eventually help capital grow cottages. Not sure what its "job" is per se for expansion, but it has one!

I just got graphs on Ramk and city count. He also just switched into slavery and monarchy turn 55? (I prob should have noted somewhere) The only thing I can figure is he didn't want to burn a turn in anarchy going for Oracle, but still imperialistic??? I guess he is relying on that catching him up. Really getting paid off with how map is set up though. He is about even in GNP, but that probably just means he went gold city 2nd (org has really been saving me a lot). His food is garbage though.

[Zed-F]

A couple suggestions:
https://youtu.be/He7X5jGt8lY
https://youtu.be/6EV4hQzCbJA

[Mjmd]

A couple suggestions:
https://youtu.be/He7X5jGt8lY
https://youtu.be/6EV4hQzCbJA

I love any and all suggestions. To note I probably won't do parodies of existing cities / planed future even if they are much more positive like Vaccine Wellerman (seriously history on the original song is depressing; I do not recommend looking up history of literally any song I post).

In actual T60 news Ramk logged in later on T59 and moved his scout sadly. I woke up in the middle of the night and through much bad micro have determined that capital should take the corn for 1 turn. I think its getting a granary because Jack actually can't grow to 6 and whip down to 4 fast enough (I even had some fancy micro for putting 40 production in in 1 turn for immediate next turn whip). Anyways southern settler therefore has to come from capital and easiest way for that is to use capital whip on a granary. Speaking of cousin Jack what a bloody city to try to micro for when to grow vs when to work the gold. I think I can do it all by swapping the river cow multiple times; here is a brief sample of my micro just for those cities:
T61 Capital takes wet corn; Donkey gets river cow; Jack works gold 1 turn
T62 Donkey takes corn back, Jack takes river cow, capital works 2 food lake
T63 Donkey takes river cow, jack gets new cow (finishes T63)
T64 Jack takes river cow to grow perfectly to size 4. one of cow workers goes to chop forest for Donkey

Other things I've discovered is that I can send two work boats exploring I think, it depends where southern city is going. I have to delay Whiskey's granary, but that city doesn't exactly have a food problem. Maybe wrong. There are just multiple complicated parts to this opening EVERYWHERE!!!! Usually i stop micro about T60, but this game I feel like I need to go to T70 ish but there are so many moving pieces and that is with basically being in a sandbox in game!

Any questions comments, suggestions, ect let me know.

Edit: one last micro test reveled I can't even whip a granary at capital and have settler in time, so maybe just 1 pop whip a work boat there and granary up at Whiskey. GAH see this is what I was talking about I was so focused on fancy cow micro that I just assumed things about other parts. I'm kind of  learning I have to focus on one or two cities at a time and just keep adding notes.

[Mjmd]

T64


SOOOO last turn I did a lot of soul searching on where I was unloading the settler. Like a lot. My original plan was to unload on the fur to steal some tiles. Decided I wanted the more defensive less antagonizing spot. I discovered what I'm assuming is Ramks neighbor (GKC analysis to come). I also discovered that there appear to be more islands than thought and a Mig work boat showed up from the west (unsure if direct neighbor or just early work boat). Point being I decided not to be antagonistic and unload on the hill (plus I get to work the fur that way). This turn:



I'm sure that won't be at all awkward going forward...... Very glad I unloaded on the hill. I should be safe for a while which is good because plan for galley is to go to southern island! Probably have to 1 pop whip some units, but Ramk probably won't have sailing for a second. BTW the work boat sign is out of date I just realized.

In other news I have no clue how my micro got so disconnected, but Jack is not growing perfectly this turn so screw micro! I might still do 1 more test, but for the most part I'm just playing now. Have no clue how Jack got off that much.

General KilCavalry Julius Caesar of Mongolia - GKC h as played larger long games before so just based on that probably ahead of me in skill. Of the imperialistic leaders he got one of the two I would have been excited about (other being Vicky obviously). Mongolia is obviously a beat down civ, but ger's have a long shelf life so could see him going for knight attack instead with him being organized. Mongolia certainly pushes the beatdown earlier more than his leader, so will be interesting what he decides to do. There were Lazteuq warriors near him and they are at peace atm. I may have more thoughts on this later while waiting for next cities. Looks like we are on a 5 person island so might do a full analysis.

[Mjmd]

T65
Demos, because they are good still. If I had rearranged tiles I could be #1 in gnp and just shy of tied for food, but mind creative and I put 1 turn into a road I'll never finish because I'm an idiot. Gotta point out the mistakes too. 


Anyways turned on tech and Whiskey will be whipping a library and starting on a scientist for an academy. I'm thinking about not teching until it is done. I also need these things called cottages at some point.

Ok random map thoughts time
1) Bloody delightful to look at. Seems as if we are essentially on a donut, but one that is gorgeous.
2) There are more small islands in between donuts which is bad for my aspirations, but eh.
3) I think there is a small middle island based on location of wines and tips. I don't know if I want to be in that position and I'll likely have that clam anyways. Mind I plan on taking Charriu's wine island soooo don't believe me.
4) I could have worse neighbors and maybe have the best position on the continent.

Lets talk about #4. Who is the beatdown from most likely to least. Note this is for classical era as things change, but just theoretical. We don't actually have a super agro group in general.
1) Lazteuq. You might think it should be GKC of Mongolia, but Lazteuq has one of the worst leaders.
   - space
2) GKC. This is a list of who I think will be beatdown, but I'm not actually positive GKC should be with Imp/Org, but I think Keshiks will be fielded.
   - space
   - space
   - space?
A whole bunch of people who have reasons not to be.
- Me - Wants to take all the islands and get to Carracks to do the Portugal thing. Probably above the other two just in agro taking islands.
-Ramk - went Oracle so assuming bulbing theology and using UB for shrine. UU is medieval as well. Slowed self down for said Oracle, so not beat down for Classical era (which makes me feel better about that island plant, not that people always see things the same).
-Charriu - neither traits nor civ really scream agro. Has to do something early, but may be forced into beat down roll if doesn't.

In an 'ideal' world the top two most likely players to wage war would follow the old adage for donuts "have 1 stable border and conquer the other direction". It doesn't make sense for the two beat down players to fight each other. They "SHOULD" attack their neighbors. Now Laz and GKC have fought, but hopefully it was minor and I can expand to all the islands while others are occupied.


Anyways
I'm not sure when the next worker will be, but I have two settlers being whipped T68. Think I'm settling T71 on the tip and T73 on southern island. I might report more this game now that PB56 is done. So won't always just be on settling turns.

[Lewwyn]

Ok random map thoughts time
1) Bloody delightful to look at. Seems as if we are essentially on a donut, but one that is gorgeous.
2) There are more small islands in between donuts which is bad for my aspirations, but eh.
3) I think there is a small middle island based on location of wines and tips. I don't know if I want to be in that position and I'll likely have that clam anyways. Mind I plan on taking Charriu's wine island soooo don't believe me.
4) I could have worse neighbors and maybe have the best position on the continent.

Glad you continue to like the map. Thoughts on point 2? I appreciate the neighbor analysis.

[Mjmd]

Ok random map thoughts time
1) Bloody delightful to look at. Seems as if we are essentially on a donut, but one that is gorgeous.
2) There are more small islands in between donuts which is bad for my aspirations, but eh.
3) I think there is a small middle island based on location of wines and tips. I don't know if I want to be in that position and I'll likely have that clam anyways. Mind I plan on taking Charriu's wine island soooo don't believe me.
4) I could have worse neighbors and maybe have the best position on the continent.

Glad you continue to like the map. Thoughts on point 2? I appreciate the neighbor analysis.

So I've played a lot of single player, like an unreasonable amount (not at a good level, mainly prince and eventually monarch). So I got every civ a few times over. Some Portugal games you end up with very little astro stuff or none at all (which sucks when you go for it early). And sometimes you choose them on an old Earth map to then colonize all of America!!! (high recommend for pure fun factor). Basically point two means the more contested non astro lands are the less going Carracks fast is worth a ton. Having to actually fight and worry over islands blasphemous!!!

I probably should note even the idea of going Carracks to expand to Astro islands is INCREDIBLY NOOB and probably reflects my single player view of them. From my reading of older games and other players the prevailing theory is games with large astro lands it usually isn't worth expanding to them because the resources required could instead be used to go conquer a neighbor. Like even in PB56 I'm wondering if I should have built settlers for all those 1 tile fishing villages. This might be different in these large games where the time-frame for payback is larger, but what if I just went to knights and conquered someone. Its safer as its directly connected and I end up with an army at the end of it to defend it. Part of my thought is that neither neighbor is probably easy meat in that regard. Shrug I'm just rambling at this point and what happens in game will dictate.

[Mjmd]

T66
Charriu declared war on Ramk assuming to kill that scout. Now that I'm working gold I'm #1 in gnp, which along with some cities growing meant I knocked a turn off of writing. Whiskey will be two pop whipping a library. Because it has been focused on work boats and a galley it hasn't been able to build a granary yet, so I actually started an org lighthouse instead this turn as overflow should finish it turn after I whip the library and will help grow it back to 6 faster.

Main reason I'm reporting for a 3rd turn though is this:

I'm sure that won't be at all awkward going forward...... Hmmm that sounds familiar  

To note original Mig workboat arrived from southwest, so I essentially have two western neighbors and this is probably the dividing point like the beaver islands are for me.

Miguelito + Rusten Pacal of France - Playing with Rusten. Mig on his own is easily better than me and lurks extensively. With Rusten they form a VERY formidable team. Pacal is still a very strong leader and France is a serviceable civ and with how late game will go their UB is better than normal. I wouldn't expect them to be the beat down early, but clearly settling an island in the face of an enemy city soooo. Would still expect major offensive to be medieval period.

Elkad San Martin of England - The leader stinks of being 2nd or 3rd round pick. Creative has been good to me so hopefully will be to him. Elkad doesn't report a ton, but I might put a tad lower than me. England with solid techs and it being a large long term game I would have taken 1st round and been ok with. Also not particularly beat down.

So obviously one thing I forgot to mention with map analysis is that intercontinental trade routes IS A HUGE DEAL!!! Will help pay for all the expansion I'm going to be doing. Plan on settling the southern island and the tip. As mentioned also plan on fast expanding from the tip to one (or multiple) of the islands. I'm talking chop and 1 pop whip a galley followed by chopping every forest in the cross for work boats. Anyways obvioius question is where do I get the trade routes from. I would prefer workboat to keep heading west instead of going south to Mig. I would also prefer to give Elkad trade routes long term them help Mig. However, I would also like to fill my trade routes and I don't think Elkad will have enough cities, plus with not having sent a work boat to me Elkad doesn't benefit so might not accept. Decisions decisions.