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[PB59] Ichabod realizes Civ 4 PB is for closers only

(May 27th, 2021, 13:28)Ichabod Wrote: I can perhaps get very philosophical and psychological here, but it clearly shows that I'm not really a winner kind of person.

Pics or didn't happen and this is just an existential crisis. lol
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
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Okay, fair enough.

First of all, neither Frozen nor Dulland has ever played the CtH Mod in a game against other humans. From that perspective, TBS or Mack would probably have been more dangerous opponents to take on.

Having said that, both Dulland and Frozen are excellent and experienced players and both have won PB games over at Civforum.
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@Papa Bear

It is fine to disclose information about different games and consequently about percived player strength.

@ Ichabod

I am not a regular on the German forum as the German abbreviations and the thread structure freak me out, but I think these two are considered to be among the better players there along with plemo. I think you should more categorize them as TBS or OldHarry skilled, if that helps :D

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I’m up to 15 cities. The only player I can see with more is naufragar, but he’s João, so he doesn’t count. The 15 cities is counting the one I took from Frolland, that was previously at 16 as well (now 15, as basic arithmetic shows me).

My economy is good. I have a library in my Capital and I’m generating a Gsci in an auxiliary city. I finally got my happy cap past 8, since Calendar is in this turn and I’m finishing a mine in the gems (got IW). My capital will get +3 from new happy, +2 from a market and probably +1 from a trade with CF. That’s enough happy to grow for the next 50 turns, I think. I also have currency. My GNP seems to be pretty high for someone that has almost no culture generation. Most of my numbers is commerce.

I’ll likely get an Academy with the first Gsci (I’ll stop teching after Calendar for a while), as my Capital will be a killer commerce city, as most others will be as well.

My power numbers are decent. I have a lot of archers, which don’t add too much, but are decent in defense. Piccadily has a lot more, but as the last SS shows, he’s serious about attacking Jowy, with a stack of HA’s (he’s the only one with HBr).

Frozen expanded very fast and it seems his economy suffered a bit. Graphs show I was always higher than him in GNP. I’m almost sure he went for Currency (stupid me never checked if he can trade gold), so he can’t have much more than I have (I know he has IW). Just checked, he has currency.

I have all the basic worker techs + archery, sailing, masonry, Myst, Maths, Currency, IW, Calendar. Frozen has everything I have, barring Calendar (does he have archery? I never seen a bowman), and he has a worse tech rate. So he can’t have any significant military advantage. I say that because I can see 2 people have Metal Casting and I’m trying to see if he’s one of them. I’ll probably have to go MC next, for the triremes. Even without the war, I think that is a power play, because we can’t forget the naval techs, as I usually do.

Cornflakes has very good tech. He has calendar for a while now. I need him as a friend. He could have messed me some turns ago by taking two workers (it’d be hard for him to profit from them, but even still). I’ve sent him 5 gold that turn, to show that I realized it and took that into account. Next turn, I’ll try to show him the option of attacking Frozen. He could take a city in the center of the donut, that is likely very lightly defended.

Djalma Santos is the city I took from Frolland. They didn’t attack for another turn, but they wipped two nearby cities this turn. Next turn, my axe will be full strength and I can unload a new axe in the city. They have one galley. If I can resist a bit more, I can get an archer there (whip) and then I’m mostly secure, I think.

I’m also proud of Casagrande. Frolland island city was settled way before, but I settled on the hill and chopped a monument on the same turn, which stole the fish (as you can see, peace with Frolland would never last all game). I really liked this play, albeit it was a simple one, because it was very proactive and fearless. I think Serdoa would be proud.

I attacked Frolland because it’s unacceptable to have players defending contested island cities with warriors. For the sake of the game, I could not let that stand. Obviously, it’s a move that I consider to be beneficial to me as well, but it has a bit of a moral meaning to it as well. Obviously the IMP/FIN team will dominate if no one checks their defenseless, culture-less cities. And since Picadilly is looking the other way, I was the one who had to act.

I think I was a bit unlucky that a size 3 city got 4 turns of revolt. That delays my whipping time, which is annoying. Alas, it my fault for not having brought an archer.

My demos are okay, I guess. Someone is kicking ass in the food department, but I can’t really complain about my numbers, when I’m AGG/ORG. Next turn, 2 cities will pop borders, so my northern cities won’t look so barren.

Jowy will likely lose some cities, which is pretty bad when you have only 7. Picadilly will be on a great position and CF will probably take something for himself as well. The future looks kind of bleak for me, in that sense. How can I keep up with them, when my land ended? They’ll have 1.5 of my land and I don’t see a way to overcome this. CF tech is very good, no way I’ll trample him with knights or something of the sort. Frolland is perhaps a more suiting target, but how do you attack a neighbor while protecting from your more powerful neighbor. And we’ll have border tensions forever, now that I attacked him.

Who knows, right? I’ll keep looking for opportunities, and that means having good naval tech and not slouching on military.

That’s my update. Any questions?

   

   

   

   

   

   
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I should perhaps have asked about Frolland before attacking them. Old Harry is a name that I still hear in my nightmares (I lost my ability to trust people because of him). TBS is probably writing a doctoral thesis on RoI in Civ games. And since this is my first CtH game as well (to note, review the game changes, as I don't seem to remember any of them), I don't have an advantage on that department as well.

But at least this will keep me on my toes. I can't enter auto-pilot, I need to keep thinking actively.
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Overall, I'm very proud of my game until now. I'm doing everything I can, I think. I've kept up with expansion, secured a decent amount of contested land, considering my neighbors (CRE and IMP). I'm working on a great person. I'm working on the Moai Statues. I have decent power. I have a good economy.

But I really need to focus now. This is the time of the game that I start losing. For instance, I'm working at a GP, but I have no plan for my next one. That's bad. If I don't manage to make some general guidelines going forward, I'll always be one step behind the opposition.
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(May 28th, 2021, 13:03)thrawn Wrote: The first step may be to decide if you are casual or hardcore. I think you are sitting on the fence there smile And neither simply enjoying the game and whatever happens happens because you'd like to do better, nor going fully the extra mile that it needs.

So what's the reason? Are you not bothered to put too much time or effort into it - in this case it should be easy to accept you can't win against the people who are. Had a look at OldHarry's last thread (why did he make you not trust people?) and he prepares like a madman having sim-ed 15 different ways to open (because only a madman would do that, right rolleye). I don't know how TBS does his thing as he doesn't post too much but he's certainly familiar with all of the mechanics and doing all the micro to put it to his favour. There is just no way to beat such in-depth planning without doing it yourself. You don't watch the football world championship and get disheartened that you are not as good as them right? smile You just enjoy it for what it is and when you play with your friends you enjoy that for what it is, and it's fine.

Or are you afraid you'll lose after putting in the effort and it would suck much more because then you won't have an excuse? This would be a harder one to work through because these thought patterns are ever so persistent but it's only a thought pattern that can be reworked.

Old Harry and his accomplice Fintourist backstabbed me in a previous big PB. We were friends the whole game and one day I open my turn to see half my cities captured or burned by galleon attacks coming from 5 different directions. That image still haunts me to this day. OH may seem like the most wholesome poster of the forum, but he is ruthless in PB's. Still love him, though.  heart

I think you make a very good point, thrawn. To be completely honest, I know I can't win against the top players. Perhaps I could compete in the early game, but I don't enjoy playing multiple hour turns that you'll need once the game gets bigger (I mean, if you are a contender, with 50+ cities). I really don't mind not winning, but I enjoy trying to be better considering the amount of effort I'm willing to dedicate. 

For example, Civ6 PBEM 18, there's no excuse for me being completely destroyed by Woden in the midgame. I made a series of strategic blunders that can't really be attributed to not enough dedication. I could have played a lot better, even if I used the same amount of time. I've seen some things happening and I didn't act on them (letting Woden buy the tile where he placed the Camp that allowed him to conquer Porto Alegre, while I had a city there for quite some turns earlier than him) and they indeed came out to bite me (and some other things I didn't realize, like letting Woden conquer Fez). Our duel is another very good example. I had a rough start, my Capital was bad and that hindered my morale. But I should have acted when I saw your power growing.

On the other hand, I liked how I recovered in PBEM 18. I liked how I managed to get a navy going without any coastal cities and I liked my diplomatic decisions. I feel like the game was closer than it looked.

I also fully recognize that the top players aren't just about more time/effort. You need to know how to use that time and I can see that a lot of players here get a lot more bang for their effort than I do.

All that being said, I think I'm way better at this game than I was before. Every single big PB I joined, I think I played better than the previous one. And I think that trying to be more proactive in my planning is my next big step to improve.
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Checking in!

Haven’t played an MP game in years, but I should still remember some things.
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Ichabod, you said you needed me as a sub at some point in July - is that still the case, and what do I need to know?
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Thanks for the help, Cyneheard. I'll need someone to cover for me next week. I'll give you some basic pointers in an update, but there probably won't be too many decisions, as my position in the game is pretty stable. And going by the current game pace, you will only play something like 2 turns while I'm away.

I think there's some discussion to be had about this turn extensions that are happening so frequently. I'm all for giving players more time to play and I've abused the patience of others before. But if we are currently holding the turns so some players can get time to play 3/4 hour long turns in a span of multiple days, that's a bit too much. I'm not giving much thought about what player is attacking what other player, so I'm not aware of all the turn splits, other than the most obvious ones (poor Commodore). But there are players and team of players that log in multiple times and don't end turn. It's reaching that point where I no longer check civstats, because the turn never ends.
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