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We Need a Jagiellon! - A Crusader Kings 3 Story

(June 2nd, 2021, 18:40)Herman Gigglethorpe Wrote: Crusader Kings 3's AI seems lax to me too, if the Let's Play is like a typical playthrough.  I can't picture the CK2 Catholic AI rulers standing by as a horde of pagans overruns eastern Europe.  tongue

So I've been thinking about exactly this lately, and I'm largely in agreement with Herman Gigglethorpe. This game is too easy right now and seems considerably easier than CK2 was. Perhaps that is a bit of rose-colored glasses, as some digging around finds people complaining that the Crusader Kings AI has always been a bit wonky. Perhaps I've just gotten better in these games since then. I've already hit the big goals I had for this playthrough: found an feudal empire starting as a minor tribal of the wrong religion. That I did it in 2 rulers is a bit crazy. I have been invaded twice - but I was prepared for it each time and had money available for mercenaries. But that doesn't mask the bad AI.

There were two big wars where I attacked a larger force that had divided itself and the neighboring AI stack didn't even bother to reinforce the other. First when Polotsk invaded, before we were a kingdom, and then later in the Denmark-Byzantium-Sweden war where I was outnumbered 15k to 9k. I had no business winning that second one once they gathered their forces in Prussia. I don't remember the AI being so passive before 1.3, so I wonder if there's some bug in the behavior that was introduced. I was getting a large Advantage at the time, so perhaps it "knew" it couldn't win and so didn't even try?

There is a difficulty setting for the game, but unfortunately Normal (what we're playing on) is also the hardest difficulty setting. I wish they'd make a Hard/Very Hard settings like are found in Europa Universalis 4. I am encouraged by what they talk about in the upcoming expansion - about making it more difficult to keep a realm together when you expand quickly - but that is not coming out until later this year.

In the meantime, I think what I will do is try to find ways to get the realm into trouble. Perhaps I will go east into the lands of Rus and see what this Mongol horde is all about.
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Complaining about the easy difficulty, yet killing off the ugly child of a matricide as your next character? mischief
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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(June 3rd, 2021, 13:00)Commodore Wrote: Complaining about the easy difficulty, yet killing off the ugly child of a matricide as your next character? mischief

But that’s the thing, CK2 and it appears 3 have the same basic problem:
Once you win the first war, you’re big enough that you can always find a war you can win, and the AI is so ineffective at combat that short of scripted events that produce gigantic armies (and they don’t do that much because those scripts would also crush AIs as well), you can win almost anything.

“Don’t do things which cause tyranny, leverage some control over succession to avoid disasters, and don’t fight stupid wars” are usually enough to do very very well.

I can think of one real war I lost in all my CK2 playing - I was a Scottish Emperor with the British Isles, northern France and Frisia as roughly my lands, and my vassal the King of England won the Crusades so now Jerusalem was a vassal kingdom. The Muslims immediately declared Jihad, and I lost either the first or the second time they did that - but the Jihad didn’t take all my lands and we happily won the next Crusade to get it back and they were never a threat again. I will say that those wars were still much harder than anything I ever faced in Europe - small and uneven supply limits and long transit times between provinces definitely limited some of my tactical advantages.
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I found CK2 worked best when kept small. Starting with Carrick and Galloway, with your ambition to form the Kingdom of the Isles plus Srathclyde but then hold it at just that...
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.

I write RPG adventures, and blog about it, check it out.
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Was the Charna story trying to track down the murder something that you made up or was it something the game gave?
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(June 4th, 2021, 07:36)Mjmd Wrote: Was the Charna story trying to track down the murder something that you made up or was it something the game gave?

I made it up, but based on what happened in the game.

When I got the first event for "Killer in Our Midst" I took the option for Charna to look over the bodies because I was too busy. Then later with her dying and it all escalating it seemed right to tell that section from her point of view. For the record, the game told me she died of natural causes, but I thought it would be a better story as I wrote it
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Ah ok. I thought it was one of those tales where she would catch the murderer by being murdered. Then when that didn't happen I was confused.
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Vingoldas, Part One: 4 Kingdoms for 4 Brothers

The third ruler of the Palemonaitis dynasty that we play through is Vingoldas.  Not the charismatic warrior of his grandfather, Sventaragis; nor the keen diplomat like his father Skirmantas, Vingoldas was somewhere inbetween.  He had above average martial and diplomacy stats both, but was not exemplary in either.

When Vingoldas ascended to the throne he was in about as comfortable of a position as he could hope for.  He was already allied with two of his brothers, King Kesgaila of Poland and King Tovtivilas of Pomerania.  His other brother, King Lutuveras of Estonia, liked him more than the other brothers, and so it seemed natural that they should also join an alliance.




He quickly accepted and then all 4 brothers were allies.  There would be no Jimenez-style in-fighting amongst this group.  And so no brother ever thought to usurp Vingoldas' claim of Emperor or fight against him in any wars.  Even when they thought they should be a part of the council, they were still good natured about it and held good Opinion of the ruler.  They were, dare I say, perfect vassals.

Notified by the courtiers that he should have a concubine, Vingoldas found a young later with a promising congenital trait.  It was only after we had made her concubine that I rememebered "Didn't Skirmantas have a concubine named Dannila?" 



And indeed, it was the very same.  That's going to make the family tree a little more awkward.  Ausra, pictured above, is the same Ausra that is betrothed to Kaiser Poppo's youngest son.  We no longer have the alliance formed by that betrothal, however; I think we have to wait for them to be married for that to actually pass down.  Seems like a bug to me.

All that aside, Emperor Vingoldas then spent the last of his money to throw a feast.  Feasting was something that Vingoldas was good at.
Or rather, as a Glutton and a Drunkard, it was something he enjoyed very very much.  There was a fight, and Vingoldas threw out some lowly mayor to keep Duke Utenis of Prussia happy.




But then the wine ran out, and Vingoldas, without any gold to his name, was really in a bind.  Courtiers chipped in but there was a sense that this was something the previous Palemonaitises would never have allowed.  Still, aside from that incident the feast went well and all who attended went home happy.

Vingoldas decided next he would finish the job of conquering Estonia, and set out to capture the last county of Narva held in the far north. 




It was a simple enough war.  The chieftain was already fighting off a peasant uprising, and so Vingoldas raised the levies in the area and added his own men at arms - almost 2,200 men in total.  They would easily win the war.

But as they marched north Vingoldas balked at the cost.  No longer content to come to the call of a lord for his fame, these men now demanded to be paid.  And even though Lithuania had only raised less than a third of their total number, they could not even afford to pay that army for more than a few months.

So when the armies fought on Feb 7, 1134, and the High Chieftain captured, Vingoldas did not use his capture to force a peace signing, but instead let the High Chieftain ransom his own release for 100 gold pieces.  The armies would siege down Narva and six months later take the county anyway; the gold was preciously needed.  I would grant Narva to Svitrigaila Palemonaitis, the oldest son of the late Duke Svitrigaila I of Latigalians.  Svitrigaila the younger had actually been briefly the duke of Latigalians but had been deposed when he was still an infant.

Lack of money was to be one of the themes of Vingoldas' reign.  His ancestors had conquered an empire for him, but it was a very poor empire.

The second theme would show itself at this same period in time:




The oldest son and player heir Ringaudas had just received an event where he gained the Gregarious trait.  And it was here that I realized I should look for a suitable betrothal for him.  Usually I forget about children until they come of age, but the AI will start betrothing them when they get to their teens.  So now seeing such a good heir, with traits of Trusting, Patienti, and Gregarious, I decide to search for a future bride and land a whopper: Princess Ecgwyn of England.  As the only child of King Oshere she is set to inherit all of England.  King Oshere's wife is 65 and I do not foresee any more children for them.  I was amazed that they would let me marry and not insist on it being matrilineal, but then checked the laws of the Kingdom of England and found my answer: it was a Scandinavian Electoral inheritance.  So it would not matter as we would need to impress the electors anyway.  Still, I could come back in a couple generations with claims on the whole land.  All Ringaudas had to do was produce a son and heir.

More betrothals came this year, and Vingoldas proved to be very deft at seeking alliances.  Now that our religion was Christian Syncretic, the whole of Christianity was open for marriages.  When his daughter, Birute, turned 16 he found the oldest son of the King of Sicily was not yet betrothed - he was only 6 - and arranged a marriage.  Sure, Birute would have to wait some time but it was for the good of the kingdom.  And then his half-sister Guadimante turned 16 later in the year and was married to the Serene Doge of Venice for another strong alliance.

This weaving of alliances began to produce results as the following year saw King Oshere pass on, and Ecgwyn became Queen of England.




England was not a huge territory, and King Oshere had been in the middle of a war against Norway to claim all of England when he died.  (He had been winning, it appeared; it was unfortunately bad luck for England that he died when he did.)  I kept waiting for Queen Ecgwyn to call off the wedding, but she never did.

Vingoldas began to develop the countryside.  He ordered the King Tovtivilas to stop taxing and start focusing on improving the development at Kernave.  This was a long-term development goal: every point of development raises taxes and levies by 0.5%.  Lithuania had a development of 8 when I started and I would see it raise up to 13 by the end of this playthrough.  But to only look at the 2.5% tax and levy growth would not capture all of it, as development in 1 county also increases the development gain in neighboring counties.  Still, it is a longer term play than just collecting 8-10% more taxes.  Vingoldas switched his lifestyle to Stewardship and began to go down the Architect branch, for even more development.

When we reached 110 gold we built logging camps:




At a return of 0.3 gold / month they would certainly take some time to pay back the investment.  But without this development, Lithuania would be forced to rely on the plunder of neighbors to pay its armies.

It was around now that the third theme of the rule would show: revolting vassals.  Oddly enough, the started around when I finally ransomed Duchess Betten for 100g (to pay for another logging camp at Braslau).  I decided to let her out because she was no longer considered a powerful vassal; the kings were starting to consolidate their power and claim that title.  However, the kings still did have their problems:




Poland is at war, with the Duke of Lower and Upper Silesia leading a revolt to lower crown law.  Meanwhile the Duke Zygmunt of Lesser Poland is attacking Duke Sedzimir of Kuyavia for the de jure territory of Sieradz.

It was a little after this that my first faction came to power, threatening to depose Emperor Vingoldas.  They did not want to see him removed as emperor, but they did want to give the Grandy Duchy of Lithuania to Vingoldas' uncle, Prince Zygimantas.  The game told me I would have roughly 3 years before they could revolt.




Here it was not the brethren kings, but the dukes and duchesses of Lithuania behind the plot.  Prince Dravenis was leading the charge, seeking to install his brother Zygimantas.  Zygimantas was clearly the puppet master, and yet kept his hands clean of all this by not actively joining the plot himself.  Most concerning was that I had been trying to sway and appease Dravenis since the start of Vingoldas' rule.  His opinion would climb to over 95, and yet he would still lead this plot.  More vassals would join in and over half of Lithuania's dukes and duchesses committed their forces.

Meanwhile, Ringaudas' time at court was coming to an end.




A touching moment between father and son came in the days before he was set to come of age, Ringaudas came to Vingoldas and told him how grateful he was for all that Vingoldas had done to help raise and guide him.  Vingoldas was touched by this and said he was only doing his duty as guardian.  Ringaudas had learned well and was clearly would be a master diplomat.  But once he turned 16, he was married to the Queen of England, and set off to live with her abroad.

Then at the end of that same year, in 1137, Prince Dravenis openly announced his revolt:




Against us are Prince Dravenis of Samogitia, Duke Gediminas of Gardinas, Duke Utenis of Prussia, Duke Gerdautas of Masuria, and Duchess Anele of Latigalians.  The only vassal who didn't revolt is High Chieftess Betten and Zygimantas himself!

We raise our levies and realize we only have enough money to pay them for a year and a half at most.  This better be a quick war.  However, we also have allies and call in the King of Sicily, the Serene Doge of Venice, and the Queen of England to aid us.  They all agree to answer our call, but will be some time away.

The AI rallies its forces near Dravenis' palace at Raseiniai and then as their opening move decides to capture Zygimantas' palace at Yatvyagi.  I want to ask what the grand strategy is of capturing the people who you wish to install as king - but perhaps I had this backwards; perhaps Dravenis is setting himself up to be the power behind the throne.  I catch the forces of Duke Gediminas on his way to meet the other armies and have our first win.

We try to race to Yatvyagi with our 6,000 men and try capture the rest of the armies before they can combine, but these are not the dumb forces of Byzantium or Denmark or the Russians.  These are Lithuanians we are fighting and more reinforcements continue to poor in.  Our 6,000 ends up fighting over 7,300.  It is a staggering loss:




We retreat north to Estonia to regroup.  Dravenis continues his conquering of Yatvyagi and moves east towards the capital at Kernave.  But at this time hope returns as 5,000 men from Sicily land on the shores by Riga.  A force 3,500 strong arrives from England.  While we waited for them to gather we had sacked the palace at Talava and ransomed back the son of Countess Evalda for 50g to keep from running out of money.

But now with over 12,000 men and out-numbering the traitorous Dravenis by a 2-to-1 edge we head back south.  We must save Kernave from falling or the war will be lost.  We must ...




That was certainly an unfulfilling ending.  With Zygimantas dead, the war was over and everybody stood down, as if white peace had been called.  I was about to end the war myself but I suppose this was cheaper.  Still, what I had wanted to do was punish those who had risen up and strip them of titles.  Now I will have to deal with them again down the line.  



****

Other happenings:
  • Duke Zygmunt won his war to restore the duchy of Lesser Poland
  • One downside of Christian Syncretism is that it is impossible to convert their lands.  It will take my Vaidile 247 years to complete.  Instead they focus on converting the faith of Old Vidilist territories
  • Before I took over as Vingoldas, it appears he had gotten himself into some trouble and let a few characters get weak hooks on him.  One character, the Mayor Vykintas of Szczecinek, decided to cash his hook in and become my spymaster.  He had horrible stats, only 8 Intrigue.  Worse, I cannot remove him for 25 years
  • Queen Mother Linda, mother of Queen Ecgwyn, has started her own war to conquer England.
  • A daughter, Anele, was born in 1136
  • High Chieftess Betten asked to ransom her son for 30g and I accepted.  Yes, the same son she had relations with.  If she really wants to go that route again...
  • King Kesgaila lost his war and was forced to lower Crown Law to Autonomous Crown Law for his kingdom. He also lost a lot of prestige.
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The Christian Syncretism option seems ahistorical to me.  They don't accuse Lithuanians of being heretics or infidels?  If I'm not mistaken, an example of real medieval syncretism with the Norse had Catholicism as the "dominant" religion, while they'd still worship the old gods on the side, rather than having the pagan religion as officially dominant.


Is the "reformed pagan" idea in general based on Julian the Apostate's attempts to change the Roman religion to challenge Christianity?  Or did Paradox have something else in mind?


(I'm interested in religious history, so that's why I'm asking these questions.)
"I wonder what that even looks like, a robot body with six or seven CatClaw daggers sticking out of it and nothing else, and zooming around at crazy agility speed."







T-Hawk, on my Final Fantasy Legend 2 All Robot Challenge.


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CK2 was definitely easy when you knew what you were doing and min maxed. I don't think that's the point of the game though, there is no win condition. You gotta make up your own goals and your own limitations.
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