(July 16th, 2021, 08:33)Rusten Wrote: Think you might've messed up not turning on the science slider previous turn. We're getting capture gold. Might've delayed nationalism by a turn.
By my counts see were short some 500 gold yet at least, but if we end up with excess gold I'll eat a musketeer hat. Also we're already building the Taj in Lavandeira and the cascade can't speed up, so it shouldn't matter actually?
No sign of Elkad building units yet. I think we could've rolled over him easily, but if he actually joins us against Civac going after DZ was an OK choice.
(July 16th, 2021, 15:43)Rusten Wrote: No sign of Elkad building units yet. I think we could've rolled over him easily, but if he actually joins us against Civac going after DZ was an OK choice.
Yes we would have done that, and it's probably right that my stubbornness cost us dearly.
Donovan meanwhile refuses to roll over:
I wondered if I could split the stack to intercept them on the corn, but with the city garrison he would overwhelm us. In fact I'm increasingly wondering if we're safe with our sieging stack. I'm quite certain that Malandro will survive, we have a good lot of reinforcements there. I promoted one musket to CG2 and one to G2 for the purpose. I also learned that we can't pillage our own roads, who knew.
T137, we saw mackoti's first galleons. Just glad that he is at about maximum distance from us.
We may strike against Donovan's capital next turn. There is bombardment left to do for 3 cats (12%) which I guess is better than the collateral. He has a lot of pikes though, and so many units in general that he'd likely get a number of survivors.
Faster than expected research is messing up my wonder plans again. The cascade will have to go without the settler, meaning we don't get the fill hammers from the market. We also miss one 2pop whip. If you log in, feel free to correct my questionable choice of building a scout, in case you come up with something better, I'm too tired. I'd like a scout for Mjmd though
You could just use the engineer and save the overflow for later. Faster Taj is faster GA, which means faster nationhood and faster 5 muskets per turn. There are some benefits to spending the GE. IDK how long the estimated build is right now.
On the civics before GA part, I guess you're referring to free market? That would be good, but it's a lot of dead-ish techs to get there and circumnavigation with optics is soooooooooo big with all the intercontinental trade routes. 4 or more commerce per city, which amounts to over 100 per turn. We might even be pushing 150 per turn once we've settled the new cities and captured all of DZ.
Rusten, please sit down and get comfortable before reading on.
Don't worry (too much), it isn't all that bad. Not catastrophic.
So, I finished bombarding this turn:
This was probably the moment to sim the combat, or find that I could actually bring 8 new hitters in range, and have 3 more cats available next turn. Yes, I should have done that. But I did none of those things. We've been advancing on and sieging this city for something like 8 turns, and with the turns taking close to 2 days on average that equates two weeks, and I wanted some action.
Picture after bombarding:
I felt like this had gone *rather* well.
Next picture:
Yeah, that did not go that well. First, 2 musketeers lost at 85 and 90%. Then, all of those lost knights took battles at 50-70% odds, and several lost without even getting a hit in. The first 4 won battles were also at 50%, so that balances it a bit (the later ones had much higher odds), but this is still way worse than expected. Losing Master Bimba on his first fight after having baptized him surely wasn't the plan
Of course I'm to blame, you have to plan for this kind of results, and I didn't.
I thought I had spent all viable hitters, but did some mouseover anyways:
Seemed worth it.
At least.
Curiously, the other woody 2 axe then had an HA defending and got only 44% odds. I still don't understand how the game picks defenders, huh.
After the battle, with reinforcements:
3 knights and a CG2 musketeer are trailing.
Now, he got a GG, probably in range of the capital. I don't think he'll have very many reinforcements incoming, but of course can't know. I think maybe 3 new units. He can also throw 2 catapults at us. And many of his surviving units will get 2 promos. So it's not really clear if we can take the capital next turn. I fear if we don't, it's utter disaster. But I will at least try to think before throwing the stack in another time, promise.
If you compare the first and last picture, you'll see the beneficial effect that all of this had on our finances.
Chora Capoeira is actually a mourning song for Mestre Bimba, very fitting.
More event log:
Our dear Ramkhamhaeng, facilitator of pitbosses, is dead . (Is that a standard GG name, or did someone rename one?).
Also Charriu founded Islam. He is no threat for Nationalism though, so that's ok. I think he just wants memes, like the Spiral Minaret.
(July 20th, 2021, 08:40)Rusten Wrote: You could just use the engineer and save the overflow for later. Faster Taj is faster GA, which means faster nationhood and faster 5 muskets per turn. There are some benefits to spending the GE. IDK how long the estimated build is right now.
On the civics before GA part, I guess you're referring to free market? That would be good, but it's a lot of dead-ish techs to get there and circumnavigation with optics is soooooooooo big with all the intercontinental trade routes. 4 or more commerce per city, which amounts to over 100 per turn. We might even be pushing 150 per turn once we've settled the new cities and captured all of DZ.
From F4 I get that we're building the Taj uncontested (barring surprises from the 3? players yet unknown. I am aware that that can change rapidly with bulbs, but the biggest threat mackoti just recently bulbed Astro, so I expect for him to have spent his powder for the moment.
Faster GA is not necessarily great, as our cities are still regrowing in many laces from military whips (and we are planning to limit their growth with drafts during the GA). I think we can actually manage a 5 turn build still, maybe 6 (that's still faster than anticipated). The 2 citizens not whipped into the settler of course do make some hammers over the time.
I can imagine several very nice uses for the GE (all rather far away admittedly), so I'm not enthusiastic about spending him if not necessary.
One civic I had in mind were free market yes, although I'm not quite sure if we can get there during the GA (well we could spend at least one GS on Edu, maybe 2 if we power Paraná during the GA). Mind there is also the GM up for grabs yet (have to carefully look at the competition, Ichabod/mack/Amicalola come to mind). Banking / Edu / paper all do have their uses imo? I guess we'd end up with more infra available than we can possibly build in a short timeframe, but otoh we can spend hammers on that while drafting, can't we? (and limit banks/unis to very few cities for now - although it would certainly be nice to get started on WS/Oxford in Bonfim).
I'm also not sure if we want to stay pacifist. Before the attack this turn gracefully relieving us, it was costing a whopping 70+gpt. Theocracy sounds attractive for drafts, or maybe we could even want free religion? (if we decide that the lib race is still winnable).
Now I see your argument re: Optics, but mind we have to actually circumnavigate yet. The workboat is just approaching the 5th continent. With Paper there is hope that it would be trivial, admittedly. Otherwise we can upgrade a trireme in hopefully conquered Spain to a caravel and finish the wrap coming from both directions, but that'll still take some time. But yes the payback is immense. (although, the smaller cities are still getting 3c routes, and I think we'd add those everywhere where our own pop % bonus doesn't push them higher).
Finally on civics, I have been thinking if we would want to go for something other than slavery after the GA. Caste seems interesting in particular if we stay in pacifism, and makes workshops somewhat attractive at least until emancipation cottages. Serfdom - I'm not sure if we actually do have a shortage, the core is fairly developed (right now there is fairly much to do for the Taj build, but we're talking after that anyways), but there is a lot of work to do in Spain, with all the forests we're inheriting from Donovan. We have no watermills and just 2 (or one?) windmills, but a fair number of farms, and if we're abandoning the whip it migh also makesense to transform a few farms into watermills. Really just a few though.
We got a GG, what to do with him? Settle in Viola? I'm fairly certain that we will not get a commando factory in this game. Otoh the armies are so big already that making a super unit doesn't seem so attractive. could make some 4 move galleys I suppose?
(July 20th, 2021, 16:41)Miguelito Wrote: Don't worry (too much), it isn't all that bad. Not catastrophic.
Turns out that I got this right for once. Donovan had brought no reinforcements, and his pikes had all just one star and were still wounded considerably:
Battle went nice, all in all:
The lost catapults had 50+-70%, the knight 96% and the spear (off a boat) 90%. Which is all annoying in isolation, but having achieved the strategic goal and maintained nearly everything that was left of the stack I won't complain. He had made a medic 3 chariot from last turn's GG which I killed instantly, so that seems wasted. Would have been nicer to settle him . The city lost all buildings but for the academy.
In the south I'm playing a bit risky:
If somehow he has a 2 mover finishing in Hydra he can Clarao once more, and we would possibly raze the granary or lighthouse that so far have survived upon retaking. However, if he gets no reinforcements (the city still has size 3, same as last turn), the axe and the potentially amphibic musketeer should have good odds of taking Hydra next turn.
Picture in the center at the end of turn:
Donovan currently has nothing at all in his cities, but we will only be able to attack in 2 turns and he may whip some pikes by that time (I am blockading his iron island. Not sure if that actually cuts the resource connection though, and of course somebody else may give him). We have 7 units that can walk onto the fork tile next turn. 3 healthy musketeers and 4 more or less wounded knights, so don't expect too much.
Macarrão, who lent his name to our highest XP knight, is my very own capoeira master. He lives in Salvador in Brasil, but has visited a couple of times. He's not one for the most flashy tricks, but a very dominant player like I have not known others. Also a great musician and teacher, as you'd expect. I'm not sure if anybody is interested in these ramblings, but have a video:
I'm actually visible in one of the clips (not playing), but won't tell who of course . My regular teacher and group leader in Germany is CM Eddy Murphy (we use nicks, although there are photos where he grew a moustache and the resemblance is impressive).
Back to the game, it has been a while, so have some graphs and demos:
Power doesn't include last turn's losses against the capital yet. It was a bit over a 100k I think .
To nobody's surprise civac is doing great. We have been talking of attacking him, but of course he's massive. No guilds, CS, or engineering yet (but positive on HBR and machinery). The question is, if we strike with knights and musketeers, can we achieve anything against massed cats & vultures/CBs/LBs. With little catapult support of our own that is. Of course, with the draft we could get a real edge.
He does have Optics though, which answers the question of whether we should pursue it. The question is rather if before or after engineering. I offered a map trade to Ichabod, but he rejected (live, both logged in). We could try again with some gold. If we take Optics near any price would be justified to get circumnav - edit: reoffered with 50 gold.
Still no idea what to do with the GG. Is Viola our long term HE city? I think so, and in that case surely it makes sense to settle it there. Or rather in a port? Marinheiro? Using it on units really seems silly. hmmmm.
Not thought about the GG and only was able to skim the post.
I see that someone accepted a map trade (Ichabod I presume), so Optics even before engineering looks good to me.
Sounds like we had some struggles, but at least things looked good when I logged in a few mins ago. DZ is a broken man. Next power spike is drafting.
Yes, Ichabod took the 50 gold for map exchange. I would easily have paid twice that, so it's nice he didn't haggle. We can see lots of interesting stuff happening elsewhere, and I'll discuss some in a future post, but I also trust other people who have traded maps before to have updated the lurkers with world views.
Attacking Dono's capital lost 8 knights and 2 musketeers where it maybe wasn't strictly necessary - we also had bad rolls - but my main fear was that the turn after would claim heavy losses again due to many pikes surviving and promoting and incoming reinforcements, but that didn't materialize at all, so yes we're good. This turn we took Hydra. If all goes according to plan we capture the last city in 2 turns. We have fallen below civac's power though.
I'l concentrate some discussion topics for you, if you can give your opinion when you find the time that would be great:
We have to decide what to do with all the drafted musketeers. I'm trying hard to justify a scenario where we don't ambush Elkad, without success so far . He has little power, few cities and is our closest neighbour. Butting our heads into civac is out. I'm tempted to raid a few islands, but he has optics already, and it doesn't seem worth the bad blood. I was entertaining ideas of invading Mjmd instead, but he seems to be winning his joint war with GKC against Ramk, who is down to 7 cities. Next turn we recover graphs. The whole continent is very backwards technologically though, so let's attack Elkad (likely split with civac, but geographically we can hope to get the bigger slice) and build boats meanwhile, then sail east. Also good to get a foothold on that continent before TBS does.
I'm increasingly liking the idea of ending the Taj GA in Theocracy, and Taoism. We are about to draft large swathes of units, which will make pacifism weigh a lot heavier than before even. Theo gives them a promotion in cities with a barracks, and replaces the vassalage effect for regularly built units. I've been thinking though wether building Paya (257 raw hammers) is better than spending the 1080 raw beakers on Theology (the extra arrow also discounts 180b off Paper thogh fwiw). The wonder is pretty expensive, and would keep Viola busy during most of the GA (and I see no other city which could do it), even stacking some OF. Researching Aesthetics leads us towards the Epics, which would surely not come amiss, in particular if we leave Pacifism. For now I'm setting up Viola for chain OF. Cornflakes is a threat for that wonder.
Labour civic after Taj GA? I see slavery mostly for getting infra into Spain, but there are also forests and the cities need to grow. Caste system for smooth GPs and to start using workshops. Serfdom for a few mills, farm commerce, and the work rate, which could help a lot in Spain. My tendency is caste.
Yes the GG. I don't see a better HE city in Spain than Viola, so that's an argument for putting him there. Or again, Marinheiro.
Tech path: (Aesthetics)-Compass-Optics-(Literature)-Engineering, then push towards paper and see if there is a first to bonus available yet.
Do we need extra workers for Spain? If yes, where to get them?
. (Is that a standard GG name, or did someone rename one?).
. The city lost all buildings but for the academy.
