[Spoiler PB62] Vanrober in a new chapter learning from Miguelito

[vanrober]

I tried to edit and didnt found the option so i redid it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TfpDY-P...sp=sharing

I kept simming and I think marble is slightly better. 

This is what i got in a quick sim. turn 43 2 granaries dfone both cities 3 pop, one of the cottages already hamlet... another settler done ready to go wherever. 2nd city turn 30. And 3rd settler can be speeded up by getting the granary with the overflow of the whiped settler, or maybe even choping a bit more.

       

SIP is not as good in my sims, since i dont get traderoutes as fast, also a good spot is not as clear, and overall seems slower, maybe if we SIP we should get another lider non CRE to speed the start up, maybe a IMP? or maybe EXP? Not sure. Also ive read in several places that this early granaries are not as good, but in my last games, the only way to speed settling up whas whiping with the granary done, so im prone to make them early. Do you think its a mistake?

[Miguelito]

Sorry, I don't think I'll get to simming.

I like the look of your sim, it's a bit like what we did in 59, with the early granaries. Although we were Exp there, so it is more dubious here. Basically if you want early granaries or rather more early settlers depends on the city spots you find, so you can't quite plan for this. Also there is near certainly at least something in the fog for the marble plant. One problem it has is that beyond size 2 it has no good tiles to work that we can see yet. If there was really nothing in the fog I'd want to get the grassland cottage over the one on the ice, or the fur camp, just so the cap does something useful. If without the tiles in the fog the marble plant already comes out on top that's a strong argument to go for it (and pick Zara).

For SIP we don't care too much for Zara. He's a good leader, but so are other Org ones. There will most probably be at least one decent second city spot for SIP. If you really want Mali (or China), you can pick it now and see what comes back. That would make SIP more likely, although the marble plant also absolutely works without Cre, just a little less lovely.

It is possible that we find a really strong fish spot for the 3rd or even 2nd city, so we might have to research Fishing and delay either AH or Pottery.

How bad would picking a Hunting civ be?

[vanrober]

I think mali here makes sense since wee get the 2 better tech we can get. I would like to get IMP since being a small map getting settler out would be cruzial, i am not sure which times for settling each city would be like "on time" and what time would be already late, but i guess you have that feeling better. I think im a bit sold on marble site, getting ZAra makes sense too. How you value imp over cre for what we know?

I know tech path and all the worker micro is susceptible to change during the first scouting turns, although im not really famous for changing my micro plans too much. 

I think im more sold in Mali than Zara right now, im sure some ORg civ will be last for me 100% (there is 8 ORG leaders) so if you think its fine i would lock Mali. Once i move the scout we can see if its better to get the capitol in marble or not. I think the difference is slim (although for what we know and with zara is better marble).

I think picking a hunting civ is only good if we SIP, if we go marble is not really good, we have 25 turns to get hunting by our own, so no real rush. Something like khemer hunting mining could also work, but i think after the nerf khemer is not as good, and i think mali with the cheap skirmishers can be a nice option to be safe from any rush we face.

Dont worry about simming if you lack time, i have plenty right now, ill try to tell you what i discover so you get as much envolved in game as you feel like. How do you prefere to see micro? detailed turn by turn, or better some screenshots or just some summary of the plan? Ill try to update the sandbox with every turn i play, so in case you have time or you feel like it, you can do it easier.

[Miguelito]

My heart is with Zara, but yours not as much it seems, and that's what counts, alright. The alternatives will also work.

I guess Imp helps more with expansion, unless the map really requires you to get a fast 2nd ring everywhere. But Cre also has the libraries. It is more defensive, because in a conflict a lot of your cities may have 3rd ring already, whole the GGs from Imp are universally useful. Otoh cultural dominance also creates advantegeous borders, which can give you a good attack path.

[vanrober]

You would lock zara over mali then?

[Miguelito]

Yes but

PB59

I've been prone to impulsive decisions lately, just assuming everything will work out somehow and then it doesn't. The same possibly applies to the civ choice here.

So just follow your heart.

[vanrober]

I feel like playing him. Lets see why Mackoty value Zara this high

[vanrober]

Only 2 people can destroy mali's plan!

[vanrober]

No way

[Miguelito]

Dang, but China is also pretty good