[PB62] Tarkeel and civac feel the need for speed

[Tarkeel]

We spent some more time on opening moves last night, and we're looking at going workboat first, finishing T10 on size 2. A worker follows, then growing to size 4 on a warrior before another worker (sped up by chopping), then whipping out our first settler on T30. If the situation calls for it, we can then dump Buddhism in our freshly founded city. I think Rome would be the only civ that can beat us there, at the cost of delaying agriculture. Most likely we'll get atleast Hunting and maybe Wheel first.

[Tarkeel]

It's time for the moment you've been waiting for, the opponent overview:

7: Fabled (w/JR4), Cyrus (CHA/IMP) of Mongolia (Wheel+Hunting)
I'm very excited that we have a brave green joining us in this game, and I hope to be pleasantly surprised in what he can bring. I haven't read any of JR4's games either, but with neither player having any MP experience with CtH, it's hard to be too optimistic. Their pick is a classic agressive combination, but that's extra incentive for their neighbors to deny them the possibility of Keshkis. I'd rather not be that neighbor though.
Verdict: Rush or be rushed

6: Superdeath (w/Jowy), Boudicca (AGG/CHA) of Rome (Fishing+Mining)
Superdeath has become one of the most (in)famous players here on RB, to the point that even one of the greens points out in the tech thread that his choice is a relapse. What a relapse it is though, he's the only player without either CRE or IMP in this game, and doesn't have an economic trait to compensate either. AGG praetorians are certainly scary enough, but doubling down on the offensive traits are likely to leave him with a backwards empire. We're not sure what the partnership with Jowy will bring, and fear that it had some impact on the relapse.
Verdict: Will ruin someones game

5: Bing_Xi_Lao (solo), Genghis Khan (AGG/IMP) of Sumeria (Agriculture+Wheel)
After a very spirited game in PB61 (which I'm loathe to spoil any more of), Bing shouldn't be easy food for anyone in this game. I'm sorry for placing him in the bottom, but playing without a dedlurker to discuss is a serious disadvantage. Sumerian Ziggurats should give an economic advantage to place him ahead of those without, and AGG will make the vultures not a liability at least.
Verdict: Survival

4: Vanrober (w/Miguelito), Zara Yaqob (CRE/ORG) of China (Agriculture+Mining)
Vanrober has come a long way, to the point where his main flaw is his lack of confidence. He's fallen deeply in love with ORG after PB60, and his pick certainly has potential. With Miguelito for guidance and cheerleader, this has the potential to win the game.
Verdict: Potential contender

3: Mjmd (w/Pindicator?), Victoria (FIN/IMP) of Mali (Wheel+Mining)
Mjmd surprised me by not picking India. I'm not sure how likely he'll be to stuff skirmishers down his neighbors throat, but I'm hoping it won't be us he's choking. I'm not sure how good of a leaer Victoria is after the lighthouse-nerf in CtH2.0, but it's a leader that Mjmd knows how to play very well.
Verdict: Big threat

2: Naufragar (w/Rusten), Pericles (CRE/PHI) of Netherlands (Agriculture+Fishing)
My impression after lurking only a few of Naufragar's games is that he's prone to try new and interesting gambits that doesn't always work out, but not for lack of talent. With Rusten as co-pilot, this combo could go all the way, especially if the map has enough coast for the dikes. I think the main threat is an early rush.
Verdict: Potential winner

1: Tarkeel (w/Civac), Julius Caesar (IMP/ORG) of Spain (Fishing+Mysticism)
How can I not rank us first? Civac has the micro-chops and I'm pretty decent at the macro level, so as long as we can communicate well and build on each other's strengths this should do well. So far we've had very good discussions, so it's boding well.
Verdict: Crashing down on hubris

It's a very even field, but I think there's a clear top-3 and bottom-3, with Vanrober in the middle.

[Amicalola]

Fun overview, the pressure's on now. Although I see you left yourself an out at the end there

[civac2]

Fabled (w/JR4), Cyrus (CHA/IMP) of Mongolia (Wheel+Hunting)
I don't quite understand how this works. Horse archers with two promotions are a much different beast than without promotions or even with only one. However, Fabled/JR4 cannot meaningfully pre-build their Gers. They can research HBR -> Archery but they still need a 2pop whip or multiple chops just prior to unlocking Keshiks which do not go into making Keshiks.

The other two problems of this kind of aggression is that it is telegraphed and that the conquest, if successful, is a bit too early. Recovery time is long enough that others can catch up with units higher up the tech tree. Ultimately, this is long odds approach to winning a PB but of course success is not out of the question.

Since there are no happiness resources visible CHA may be an economic boon in the early game, so the trait combo is not bad (provided there isn't gold and furs, say, just over the next hill.

Superdeath (w/Jowy), Boudicca (AGG/CHA) of Rome (Fishing+Mining)
Another telegraphed attacking combo. This is worse in that the early accelerator of Fabled's choice is missing. On the other hand, Rome has better starting techs and better staying power. AGG Rome probably works better if you develop normally initially and attack with praets, cats and maybe elephants. For this, an accelerator or economic trait next to AGG would have been preferable.

Remarks above about early attacks and CHA apply.

The new AGG maintenance reduction works on Pacifism costs. On Emperor, you pay 0.4 gpt per military unit over the free unit limit. Pacifism has no base cost and this can come to be about similar to OR maintenance or possibly cheaper. By staying in Pacifism in long stretches of turns one has access to a pseudo PHI trait. Not sure whether this is a good idea.

Bing_Xi_Lao (solo), Genghis Khan (AGG/IMP) of Sumeria (Agriculture+Wheel)
This combo is mediocre. AGG vultures are a decent upgrade over axes but nothing to write home about. Nearly the same can be said about ziggurats. They are a decent upgrade over courthouses but decidedly unexciting. (Of course, that puts them into the upper echelon of UBs already.)

Remark about AGG pacifists applies.

Vanrober (w/Miguelito), Zara Yaqob (CRE/ORG) of China (Agriculture+Mining)
Still do not like CRE. On the small map it is certainly decently useful though and I know several strong players on civforum.de rate CRE very highly. (I do not understand why.) ORG is good, China is good just for their starting techs. This is a pick with powerful elements and no undue cuteness. Gets the civac stamp of approval.

Mjmd (w/Pindicator?), Victoria (FIN/IMP) of Mali (Wheel+Mining)
Another powerful pick with no frills. Mali is an inspired choice in the face of the SDs and Fableds of this world. Skirmishers not only are good defenders they also enable Mjmd to make the rushers miserable before the fact if he deems it necessary. The only question is how much power Victoria lost to the repeated FIN nerfs. With this caveat, Mjmd's pick is the best of the game.

Naufragar (w/Rusten), Pericles (CRE/PHI) of Netherlands (Agriculture+Fishing)
What even is this? The only sense I can make of this is an attempt to dominate the seas with double-bulbed East Indiamen. Did they start on a 3-tile island or something? I can get behind PHI but surely CRE on top of it is a bit excessive. Even with the apparent rationale behind it I dislike this pick.

Tarkeel (w/Civac), Julius Caesar (IMP/ORG) of Spain (Fishing+Mysticism)
Julius Caesar is likely the most powerful leader under these conditions. Spain is not the best on the clawing-our-way-to-victory-scale, I don't think. We could have picked Rome before SD but Tarkeel wanted to play Spain.  Since we got an outrageously accommodating starting position and cheap tech costs Spain is not (much of) a liability early on.

Citadels grant +5 EP to siege weapons and +2 EP to ships. They also require no walls to build. Since castles are OK to begin with, citadels are fine. EP on ships is always good if ships are relevant at all and the EP on siege is useful under certain fringe scenarios. Overall, I rate it similar to the ziggurat. A decent improvement on the base structure that makes it worth building more often. Conquistadors, however, are very good and situated just at the fringe of the relevant tech range. They could potentially be leveraged to win the game.

[civac2]

Password: isa







There is nothing wrong with settling the city before moving the scout for more info.

[Tarkeel]

Turn 0 (4000 BC) - Gentlemen, start your engines!


For once, the fog in the starting screenshot didn't seem to lie: The river really deadends to the east, and there is a hint of further water to the southwest-


We had previously discussed moving the scout NE-NE and then circling around. As the fog didn't offer anything enticing and we don't expect to find anything to make a move worth it, we settle in place, and use the vision gained to guide the scout:


There's our missing luxuries! At first glance, a city on the river 3-4S looks like a good first plant to get the gems up ASAP. It still looks like the best move for the scout is to start NW and then circle clockwise.


There's tundra to the north, so I think the best next move for the scout is onto the desert hill.



Silverstone hosted the first World Championship of Drivers in 1950, which is often incorrectly referred to as the first Formula 1 race (which was held four years prior). It's been a staple on the Formula 1 calendar ever since, and have featured in every year since 1987. The circuit itself started as the access roads circling the RAF Silverstone airbase, and the old runways are still visible in the satelite image above.

[civac2]

So much for the CHA picks.

Is the water west of the gems coast or a lake?

Edit: Also, there really is tundra to the north. Though the hill I thought was tundra is a desert hill.

Edit2: Did you make a demo screenshot?

[Tarkeel]

There's no good way to dermine if that tile is a lake yet, but it looks like it. I did take demo shot (and will take every turn for some time), but only one other player (Mjmd?) has settled.

17 GNP, 2 MFG, 5 CY, 9 land tiles.

[Tarkeel]

Bing has settled as well, and according to Demo C&D he should have 18 GNP, 3 MFG, 4 CY and 6 tiles. Details in spoiler:

With only Mjmd settled:

With Mjmd and Bing settled:

Playing around with tile-yields I think that Bing is working a 2/1/1 tile.

[civac2]

Bing has 6 land tiles and +2/1/2. You checked it can't be +3/1/2? So either he has a mangrove fish or is working a 2/1/0 tile and is researching AH or has wine on his starting tile.

Bah, this isn't really going anywhere without score.