American Politics Discussion Thread

[superdeath]

There is still the notable exception of abortion.

This is a big one.

[mackoti]

With US splitting up I think it would lead to mass-immigration from red states to blue states, as it is the blue states that currently carry the red states economically. It would be quite a twist of fate to have the anti-immigration populace now be immigrants themselves. Then again, they were also immigrants themselves in the past when they moved to the USA, so I guess it's nothing new. Anyway that goes beside the point, I agree that capitalism needs to go in the long term, and under another societal organization a united world could just be the logical thing. Though you'd have to get pretty close to that point to achieve the changes in the first place.I

I supose this reasoning is explaining why so many  californians are moving to texas.

[Jowy]

deleted as requested

Don't get caught up in the pronoun thing specifically - that was intended as an example, of how liberals or leftists don't just advocate their positions, but want to forcibly coerce everyone else into going along with them.  That's the madness - they want to force everyone else into their positions on guns, vaccines, diversity, collectivized economics and health care, and so on.  Even to the point of censoring and canceling anyone who dares to speak in any other way.  They are seeking a collectivized hive mind with all dissent stamped out.

The right mostly doesn't do that.  They tolerate opposing viewpoints: If you want or don't want a gun, that's your choice; if you want or don't want a vaccine, that's your choice; if you want or don't want health care, buy it or don't.  They are gradually getting to tolerance on gender issues.  There is still the notable exception of abortion.

The opposite would be madness. It's not gun control if there's no control over guns. Vaccines work best when enough people have them. Protecting minorities doesn't work if you don't protect the minorities. Higher taxes don't work if you don't have to pay them. Healthcare wise, I think leftists would be quite okay with affordable healthcare only being given to those who want it, but it's the right who would complain when their hospital bills or drug prices are 1000x higher. There is no widespread censoring or canceling, those are made up things the right claims to victimize themselves. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. This is usual right wing thinking though, they should be allowed to do anything they want because of freedom, but not those other people who they don't agree with.

[Cyneheard]

With US splitting up I think it would lead to mass-immigration from red states to blue states, as it is the blue states that currently carry the red states economically. It would be quite a twist of fate to have the anti-immigration populace now be immigrants themselves. Then again, they were also immigrants themselves in the past when they moved to the USA, so I guess it's nothing new. Anyway that goes beside the point, I agree that capitalism needs to go in the long term, and under another societal organization a united world could just be the logical thing. Though you'd have to get pretty close to that point to achieve the changes in the first place.I

I supose this reasoning is explaining why so many  californians are moving to texas.

California has completely screwed up on housing. Housing prices are astronomical in much of the state, because they refuse to build more housing. It's not really a left/right issue in the same way - zoning cuts across race/class differently.

Just random example from the first search in Zillow for LA (not even San Francisco/Silicon Valley area, which is even more absurd - you might find a similar house at $2 million there)
$819,000 for 1676 sq ft/156 m^2.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/18907...3544_zpid/

My house is worth maybe a third of that in Baltimore, and it's bigger if you include the finished basement, and the location is fine - and it's not like Maryland is a cheap place to live either!

[Jowy]

With US splitting up I think it would lead to mass-immigration from red states to blue states, as it is the blue states that currently carry the red states economically. It would be quite a twist of fate to have the anti-immigration populace now be immigrants themselves. Then again, they were also immigrants themselves in the past when they moved to the USA, so I guess it's nothing new. Anyway that goes beside the point, I agree that capitalism needs to go in the long term, and under another societal organization a united world could just be the logical thing. Though you'd have to get pretty close to that point to achieve the changes in the first place.I

I supose this reasoning is explaining why so many  californians are moving to texas.

That is caused by the housing crisis. California is by far the biggest contributor to US economy.

[Mr. Cairo]

The moral panic over trans people that seems to be infecting the american right is just so absurd. Allowing people to self-id and change their gender has no real impact on others, yet so many seem to take it as some kind of personal attack. I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but a few years ago, the government here in Canada added gender identity to the list of protected attributes for which people can't be discriminated against (like race and sex). Guess what, NOTHING REALLY CHANGED, there are no "pronoun police".

The only thing "Leftists" (whatever they're supposed to be) are trying to "coerce" is extending and expanding the basic level of human dignity that should be provided to everyone, but isn't. And that includes things like healthcare and housing, as well as respect for ones personal choices like gender identity and abortion.

Also, it's a bit rich to say that the right in America is "tolerating" of opposing viewpoints when they're the ones trying to get "offensive" books banned from schools and make voting as hard as possible. And ironically enough, they're also not tolerant of the rights of private businesses to mandate vaccines for their employees.

[mackoti]

The moral panic over trans people that seems to be infecting the american right is just so absurd. Allowing people to self-id and change their gender has no real impact on others, yet so many seem to take it as some kind of personal attack. I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but a few years ago, the government here in Canada added gender identity to the list of protected attributes for which people can't be discriminated against (like race and sex). Guess what, NOTHING REALLY CHANGED, there are no "pronoun police".

The only thing "Leftists" (whatever they're supposed to be) are trying to "coerce" is extending and expanding the basic level of human dignity that should be provided to everyone, but isn't. And that includes things like healthcare and housing, as well as respect for ones personal choices like gender identity and abortion.

Also, it's a bit rich to say that the right in America is "tolerating" of opposing viewpoints when they're the ones trying to get "offensive" books banned from schools and make voting as hard as possible. And ironically enough, they're also not tolerant of the rights of private businesses to mandate vaccines for their employees.

Well i read many conservative sites and they dont care but they dont want those tranzition to be payed by the governement. Most of them dont want man to be in ladies toilets, here my wife has a trauma experience in england , she went to a pub with a friend and went to the toilet and there enters a big muscled man( near 2 m hight), she instantly went outside saying nothing and the big guy went after her calling her name and saying becasue her he/she must take pills and that my wife is not a true lady cause she has a bag from some cheap supermaket(dont remamber name now) and that her boyfriend buys from some expensive stuff(dont remember name again). Even more, employs from there didnt helped her(my wife not the other her) , at some point
one of those got between them and then the  offended dude/girl took a cup of coffe and trew on my wife. She wanted to call police but the stuff told her no point becasue not charges will happen as that stuff happende before and police realy dont want to get involved in this kind of stuff.

[Mr. Cairo]

Well i read many conservative sites and they dont care but they dont want those tranzition to be payed by the governement. Most of them dont want man to be in ladies toilets, here my wife has a trauma experience in england , she went to a pub with a friend and went to the toilet and there enters a big muscled man( near 2 m hight), she instantly went outside saying nothing and the big guy went after her calling her name and saying becasue her he/she must take pills and that my wife is not a true lady cause she has a bag from some cheap supermaket(dont remamber name now) and that her boyfriend buys from some expensive stuff(dont remember name again). Even more, employs from there didnt helped her(my wife not the other her) , at some point
one of those got between them and then the  offended dude/girl took a cup of coffe and trew on my wife. She wanted to call police but the stuff told her no point becasue not charges will happen as that stuff happende before and police realy dont want to get involved in this kind of stuff.

What you described is harassment and (probably) a crime regardless of anyone's gender identity. Expanding legal protections for trans people doesn't legalize harassment or assault. The unwillingness of police in the UK to prosecute people is a separate issue, and has more to do with the chronic underfunding of police and the courts in the UK by the current Conservative government.

[mackoti]

Well i read many conservative sites and they dont care but they dont want those tranzition to be payed by the governement. Most of them dont want man to be in ladies toilets, here my wife has a trauma experience in england , she went to a pub with a friend and went to the toilet and there enters a big muscled man( near 2 m hight), she instantly went outside saying nothing and the big guy went after her calling her name and saying becasue her he/she must take pills and that my wife is not a true lady cause she has a bag from some cheap supermaket(dont remamber name now) and that her boyfriend buys from some expensive stuff(dont remember name again). Even more, employs from there didnt helped her(my wife not the other her) , at some point
one of those got between them and then the  offended dude/girl took a cup of coffe and trew on my wife. She wanted to call police but the stuff told her no point becasue not charges will happen as that stuff happende before and police realy dont want to get involved in this kind of stuff.

What you described is harassment and (probably) a crime regardless of anyone's gender identity. Expanding legal protections for trans people doesn't legalize harassment or assault. The unwillingness of police in the UK to prosecute people is a separate issue, and has more to do with the chronic underfunding of police and the courts in the UK by the current Conservative government.

Well thing happened in 2010, dont know who was leading then. I belive even you identify like a woman but have pennis you should go to men room and I realy dont care if you identify like that.

Well if thing happened the other way or someone retaliate to the guy oh then there a hatred becasue he/she is different. So the situation is very hard for police becasue those dudes/girl are protected class and if measure is take against them well police is full of hatred and transfobic9or whatever is the word) so this way an entire lunacy is created, becasue some people got more rights then others.

[Jowy]

Well i read many conservative sites and they dont care but they dont want those tranzition to be payed by the governement. Most of them dont want man to be in ladies toilets, here my wife has a trauma experience in england , she went to a pub with a friend and went to the toilet and there enters a big muscled man( near 2 m hight), she instantly went outside saying nothing and the big guy went after her calling her name and saying becasue her he/she must take pills and that my wife is not a true lady cause she has a bag from some cheap supermaket(dont remamber name now) and that her boyfriend buys from some expensive stuff(dont remember name again). Even more, employs from there didnt helped her(my wife not the other her) , at some point
one of those got between them and then the  offended dude/girl took a cup of coffe and trew on my wife. She wanted to call police but the stuff told her no point becasue not charges will happen as that stuff happende before and police realy dont want to get involved in this kind of stuff.

What you described is harassment and (probably) a crime regardless of anyone's gender identity. Expanding legal protections for trans people doesn't legalize harassment or assault. The unwillingness of police in the UK to prosecute people is a separate issue, and has more to do with the chronic underfunding of police and the courts in the UK by the current Conservative government.

Spot on. It'd be a little worrying if the only reason right wingers aren't raping people is because there are separate toilets for men and women. I think the source of these beliefs comes from the demonization of gay people, and it has been extended to trans people now that there's more awareness about their existence.