[PB63 Spoilers] Ginger and Lazteuq find a way to peace

[Ginger()]

Well well well, said the penny as it fell down.
Welcome everyone to my first pitboss, I hope I put on a good show for all you lurkers, as I display the full handicap that singleplayer habits encourage. (4 city Lib anyone?  ). At any rate it'll be the job of my dedlurkers to fight my passive instincts and force me to settle more cities. I was so excited at to see the thread open for this pitboss, that I immediately went to go click on the threads to see what people had written   . So... shortly after I clicked and opened the first player's thread to appear, I realized my mistake   . Sorry Bing, I read what what picks you were angling for, and to be fair I had no intention of going for either. It's probably nothing, but if one of the lurkers sees fit, you might want to alert him to that. My first scandalous disgrace aside, lets get to some theorycrafting and picks.

Civs and Traits can be boiled down to two main classes, economic and expansion. This will be my first game with not only pitboss but also Close to Home, so fun times ahead.
Let's start with traits:
Eco:
FIN -My name is Financial, Trait of Traits, look upon my GNP ye mighty, and despair...  Oh how the mighty have fallen  . Riverside Cottages are now 10 gold less valuable, with regular cottages now giving 20 gold less than before. Still powerful long term, but the initial hit is admittedly rough. 
PHI -the second best economic trait in BtS got buffed in CtH, this is a very strong pickup, the sheer amount of GNP that can be produced from GPP is truly nuts with PHI. I mean imagine starting with triple Parthenon, what more can you ask? 
ORG -dirty deeds done dirt cheap. Whether its whipping infrastructure, or paying for the bloated carcass that constitutes a late game empire, Organized always gives value, with very little effort (cough PHI), and very little bias in the usual decisions (cough FIN). 
SPI -I can never rate this trait satisfactorily, either its useless because my golden ages came at the right time, or wonderful because I'm min-maxing Pyramids, Religion, and Paci/Caste. In CtH there's the very powerful Serfdom civic, which is pretty much beholden to playing with Spi. 
Ind -Honestly given how powerful wonders can be, this is a considerably decent pickup if you make use of it, but probably only as a combo pick of some kind. Heavily incentivized to Oracle gambit for 2 pop forges. Think of this trait in terms of giving you a wonder, and you'll start to see the light it shines. (For what mere mortal trait can compete with the lux aeterna of the Pyramids?)
CHA -This seriously depends on the map, 2 extra early happy with the promise of triple promo mounted down the line is amazing if there's not just a gems or ivory right around the corner. Dedlurkers, if you know Tarkeel's habits, clue me in on this one please
PRO -No longer the hot trash it was in BtS, can do some fun things like GLH and Carthage (which Amicalola showed in PB60), gets a power spike at banking, and gets a power spike if there are multiple other PROtectionists imposing barriers to the free market. Oh and it has a defensive bonus too. Yay guys, if I'm losing, I'll lose slower  


Expansion:
IMP: what does withdrawal feel like? Well play a game with imperialistic leader that lasts more than 60 turns and you'll know the answer. 
EXP: Aquaduct boost, hell ya baby! oh and something about granaries too
CRE: a very flexible and powerful early game trait that like CHA, depends on the whims of the map maker. Will probably pick if I start without Mysticism
AGG: Neat, I guess, probably better as a deterrent than anything else, hook up your copper early and you dont have to take that forward settling crap from anyone. A good pick with Rome, because Charriu you beautiful bastard, Praets are still 8str. (Hey any word on whether Levees could go to Engineering? ...no this has nothing to do with the Dutch, why do you ask? :P)

So why would I go through the trouble of spending 20 min typing out the reinvented wheel? Because if my (ded)lurkers spot anything here they vehemently disagree with, or view as a vestigial habit of singleplayer meta, please let me know!
For my next post I'll look at what civs and potential combos I'm interested in trying out, I wanted to split them for brevity.

[Charriu]

(Hey any word on whether Levees could go to Engineering? ...no this has nothing to do with the Dutch, why do you ask? :P)

I know it's a joke but just to be sure at Engineering they would be way to strong.

So why would I go through the trouble of spending 20 min typing out the reinvented wheel? Because if my (ded)lurkers spot anything here they vehemently disagree with, or view as a vestigial habit of singleplayer meta, please let me know!

Or to ensure you did not misunderstand any changes in CtH. So far no misunderstanding.

[Miguelito]

Dedlurkers, if you know Tarkeel's habits, clue me in on this one please

He made the PB 60 and 61 maps,  so you can look up those threads to get a feeling .

[Ginger()]

Civs, Combos and the Personalities at Play:
This really seems futile while awaiting the starting spot screenshot, as a civ pick should probably be used to buy starting techs, but I'll try to rank the good civs by their timing.

Early:
Inca and India, the old classics despite the nerfbat's best, are still solid picks for an early powerspike, saving time and hammers early. I really like the idea of Inca, as it frees me from picking an Exp or a Cre leader. 

Wheel/Agg (Egypt ) or China -> see earlier comment about starting techs

Carthage or Rome both have very strong starting techs (if the start permits), and very good classical units. I do not like the diplomatic implications that Rome has, everyone sees it coming, and is incentivized to handicap you earlier, but on the flip side, if they can't mess with you before IW, they won't be able to mess with you until Xbows. Numidians have a soft spot in my heart. Relevant HA after metal is very strong in multiplayer, and 2-movers win wars. 

Zulu: Impis are amazing. Very very annoying to counter build and great against early chariot chicannery. 

Native America: an interesting option if I'm worried I'll get screwed with, Dog Soldiers make for a mean choke.

Late:
Byzantium- you know how I said everyone sees Rome coming? Yeah, I'd almost classify Cataphracts as an economic ability given how much time it takes to get them. An economic ability that won't work passively. Buuuttt, the temptation for Mil Trad at Guilds is really strong.

Zulu: Ikhandas are amazing. Upkeep adds up.
HRE: The only reason these irredeemable dogshit starting techs ever see the light of day is the beauty that is unrestricted leaders, Organized HRE  

Korea: a good pairing with PHI, the best trait in the game  , gets a reasonably powerful UU that can counter some early aggressors (cough Rome), and is closer than it seems with the access granted by a Math bulb. Seowons are... nice? Not sure how they stack up to the Russian labs, probably favorably but still very, very late. 

Mali: a Korea-scale bonus that comes much earlier, with a much more common building. Honestly I think Skirmishers are pretty bad given the tech sink required for them when you start with WHEEL AND MINING. Like hello?! Easiest copper pickup in the world. Great starting techs make this a better pick the Korea or HRE 

Spain: If you can overcome the wacky techs and survive to Mil Trad, Conquistadors are a shoe-in for top 5 UU in the game, and Citadels offer some flexibility for Engineering attack. 
Russia: See Spain but with good starting techs and even later uniques.
Dutch: Given a watery map, which I smell in the air for this game, the Dutch are the single greatest civ in the game... if you start in the industrial era. 
This makes me sad, because I really, really love the character of the Dutch uniques, but they won't see the light of day in 80% of games. 

Vikings: Sneaky coastal raiders come Civil Service, with fast boats from the very beginning. Strong Civ on water with a military bent. Dont like the Hunting start much but what can you do


Okay Leader Civ Combo Time:
Here's just a shotgun list of combos I've come up with
Pacal of Ottomans
Kublai, Suryvarman, Zara of Rome
Sulieman of Byzantium (PHI to power to Guilds, IMP to not cry on the way)
Sulieman of Korea (another hedge pick)
Cathy of Native America/Mali (yes, I settled there, what do you want to do about it?) [can swap Cathy for Cyrus or Charlemagne if NativeAmerica]
Frederick of HRE (a personal favorite, but poor start might kill me before it comes online)
Roosevelt of Sumeria (another builder's pick, this has a ridiculously fun payout for the Oracle gambit, 45 hammer Ziggys and 60 hammer forges)
Pericles of Arabia (https://youtu.be/15bLDWs0Q4Q) 
Augustus/Bismarck of India (I've seen more subtlety on American TV)
Pacal of Carthage (Commerce pick if map looks wet, Numids are a surprise tool that will help us later)
Elizabeth of Inca (Elizabeth is the beautiful girl at prom that everyone wants to ask out, and by that I mean, get run over by Praets/Ballistaphant/WarChariots/etc.)


Psychological/Diplomatic considerations:
There's 5 very experienced players here, and about 3 fellow greens. As the greenest here I do not want to get caught flat footed or singled out by the sharks, which I fear a greedier leader pick like Elizabeth might lead me to be. If I get early in the draft, I probably will go Inca, as it saves me from picking either a Creative leader or an Expansive one, and I will probably pair with Financial, given the synergy of unlocking non-riverside farms. Will also give me the opportunity to react with leader pick to what others choose. Zulu is a good hedgehog pick if my start has Agr/Hunt or Agri/AH res. 

I also think that going early in the draft there might be a reasonably significant appeal to stake out a claim on an Industrious leader. Everyone knows the maxim that Industrious drops off in value with player count, and with density as a pick (opposite of say Protective). Signaling early that I will be going for a wonder strategy might put others off that same road. This is a double edged sword, as while people are less likely to compete with Augustus of India for Stonehenge, or Roosevelt for GLH, they'll be much more inclined to eat him afterwards  .

One thing I want to keep in mind throughout the game is "What is my win condition?", "when will my Civ be able to eat another?" you can't make set plans for a 4x game, the imperative is always to adapt to what the map and diplo situation throw at you, but you do need to have a focus throughout the game on what you're working towards (and what your opponents might be working towards that shafts you).

[Ginger()]

I know it's a joke but just to be sure at Engineering they would be way to strong.

What about Replaceable Parts? 

[civac2]

CTH terraces don't get any culture, I think. They are still quite good with the discount.

PB60 had one early happiness resource for everyone distributed in a way that you could trade for one additional. Don't remember the happiness situation in PB 61 exactly. I think it was more generous (elephants + 1 forge happiness resource for everyone). Civ4 is close to unplayable without one early happiness resource so I'd expect at least the one. CHA is good with one early happiness, still OK with two and gets sketchy after that.

[Ginger()]

Yeah the Terrace discount lets me skip Expansive, but the Mysticism starting tech lets me skip creative (in a very sketchy, two-bit way). I'll probably have a really hard time justifying to myself not picking creative without Mysticism to start. Maybe its psychological and I should swallow the antisynergy anyways, (or on the flip not pick creative and tech mysticism with another civ). Thanks for the rundown of the happy resource distribution. I think leader traits are probably too precious to "waste" on early happiness. Though there is something to be said for CHA Inca. The faster granaries would push me up against that happy cap sooner, and the Mys start means monuments (rip San Martin, patron saint of tastes great separately).

[Tarkeel]

As Miguelito said, I've made the maps for 60 and 61 (see my signature for links), and I think the creation process was well documented.

Some general comments:
Inca no longer has culture on terrace/granary.
I wrote my thoughts on Serfdom in the CtH thread.
INDustrious is more about the cheap forges than the wonders. Contested wonders usually goes to whomever sacrifices/invests most for it, although you're likely to hoover up any unwanted ones. I wrote some thoughts about this in my PB58 thread. I seem to remember writing more, but can't find it just now. (If you have the time, I'd recommend reading that thread)
AGG/PRO for me are mainly about better access to the counter-promotions, or specials like amphib and commando. Don't discount the economic value of AGG in the late game.

[civac2]

The new AGG seems to be a pretty good but not top tier trait. The unit maintenance discount is quite relevant and it applies to Pacifism costs.

[Ginger()]

Thanks Tarkeel for the serfdom write up, I’ll keep that in the back of my head as I’m planning for late game (if I make it there). Civac, by my estimates, the AGG bonus should rival or outpace Org’s civic discount, does that hold up in your experience? To that end, I’ll probably try for AGG pairing if I end up with Rome or Zulu.
Ever since I read through the UB changes in CtH I’ve had this itch to try out Stalin of Japan for some deliciously promoted Samurai, probably a terrible idea from a competitive standpoint though