[PB63 Spoilers] Ginger and Lazteuq find a way to peace

[Lazteuq]

I like how you put our traits at the bottom of the list to make them look as unconventional as possible. I love/hate/deny being a hipster. And PHI/SPI certainly feels like hipster traits.

I think ideally the scout should NOT go to the expected city spot right away. Instead it should loop around other places and end up near that city spot when the settler is done. My instinct is to scout northwest, then wrap around across the north. Then curve south and end up in the southeast around T20, before we'll have to be committing to a city site choice. I see no reason to scout south or southeast right away. As you said, the south plains hill will be covered by borders soon, and that southwest land looks unexciting.
I'm not bothered by sending the scout through rough terrain to the north. That's probably only a 1 tile delay, since it looks like 2NW is not forested. (Yes, I know, fog gazing is the devil)
We can't act on any scouting information until Turn 16, so it doesn't really matter what order we scout in anyway.

That's really surprising that nobody took PRO. I don't know what to think.

Edit: Also based on how much he's posting, I think Krill is seriously dedlurking Pindicator. Scary.

[Ginger()]

I like how you put our traits at the bottom of the list to make them look as unconventional as possible. I love/hate/deny being a hipster. And PHI/SPI certainly feels like hipster traits.

Haha you're sharp, yes and tbh, I worry I've scared off/disappointed the other lurkers with a pick like that that screams singleplayer meta. I don't mind PHI, I'm shocked it doesn't get picked as often, unless I get a very rude awakening here, I plan to pick it in 150% of my CtH games   . However, I do grumble to myself about how we'll manage to get our money's worth back from SPI. It's definitely a trait that requires work. I suppose it comes into its own after we get some civic techs. The problem is that a trait that requires a lot of tech to become good is questionable. So I'm wondering if I made a mistake or not. Ah screw it, regrets verboten. 

I'll trust your scouting instincts, I just wagered we find either floods or jungle to the south as we are above the equator, and arid plains make me suspect floods. While it could just be more plains, that wouldn't be the usual lush RB classic, now would it? We have several turns to decide tech path and whether we use the 2 pop deer, 2 pop chop, or 3pop openings based on what we uncover around us. 

As for Krill lurking Pin, based on Pin's previous threads I bet half of their posts are debating naming scheme :P That being said, we should definitely eliminate Pin if we want any chance of winning the post-count war. Jokes aside, I've written earlier that his pick and personal preferences make for a pretty obvious strategy (Construction beeline), and one that arrives right as our Praets are ready, so he should most likely be someone else's problem. That being said you can always DoW early with Axes and Spears and all the Creative civs are early game threats.

[Tarkeel]

It's hard to comment as a global lurker without giving away clues, so most of us are most comfortable answering direct questions. If we start asking about stuff it might suddenly alert you to something that had escaped your notice.

[Ginger()]

   

The eagle standard has landed, Imperium Romanum, 4000bc
Time for your 3am tea leaf reading: Superdeath logged in same time as me and he had slightly worse GNP, meaning he is teching a tech without prerequisites. This is expected as Maya starts with no food techs. He also has identical F/H, so he probably has some kind of mirroring on his start. With this knowledge we should be able to extrapolate his Construction and Guilds dates to within +/- 3 turns. Brb, feeding it into the supercomputer...

Think about stepping the scout 1NW then either stepping 1 SW on the hill or continue NE to the floodplains. Should I investigate that little peninsula/isthmus or continue trekking inland?

[Tarkeel]

What's your reasoning for scouthing NW first?

[Lazteuq]

I think going NW-SW to the plainshill is best. There is probably seafood around there, I'll bet that plainshill itself is a good city site. Also we might get insight on the shape of the map by seeing what the water looks like over there, maybe we'll see someone else's land. I don't want to wait for the 2nd border pop to see.

Tarkeel, I recommended scouting NW first because it means the scout can do a loop around and end in the south near where the settler will probably want to be. We don't need the scout to tell us there's a viable city site to the south/southeast, I think we can already assume that.

Same food and hammers doesn't necessarily mean mirroring. It would be really surprising if Tarkeel didn't give everyone a plainshill start and a 4 foodhammer tile, but beyond that, there can still be start variation.

Making a supercomputer to beat humans at Chess: Hard. Making a supercomputer to predict Superdeath's gameplay: Impossible.

[Ginger()]

   
Tarkeel you sick bastard, that's where you put my stone? 
(thank you for the nice lake tho)
Pffft, so it looks like I need Sailing before Masonry. Lazteuq, I think your plan for early academy is looking ever more tempting by the minute as the early tech laundry list grows. OTOH, that island gives better trade routes without needing Writing, so again I can't decide. Luckily this kind of planning is way too far ahead and can be reasonably skipped.  
I still think that with our traits, a play for Pyramids is our best chance to create some kind of "variance" or a potentially leverageable advantage; I'm not feeling particularly inclined to race Mjmd or the other ORGs to Oracle. If everyone's stone is similarly sequestered that gives Superdeath's Augustus a considerable leg up. Also hoping the cottage land continues along the river with maybe a gold to the right of the river, looking like juicy commerce potential, maybe we Academy that instead of the Capital. Probably worth it if gold/gems are there, otherwise not. For future posts I'll try to leave my wonder fantasies out of it and just focus on cranking the worker/settlers/spearmen, but this is where my gears are turning atm.  (Don't take that sign seriously, as I'd never actually plant without knowing BFC, it's just an idea atm)

As for the scout, 
Plan is to move along the coast, to make sure no fish are ruined by any hasty plant for the wheat, then end on that plains hill in the fog the turn after next, thinking to zigzag NE/SE towards the floodplains river to scout the rest of it. Let me know Laz if you think I should just double-back up to the river now instead.

P.S. what is the keybind for the dotmapping tool?

[Tarkeel]

Tarkeel you sick bastard, that's where you put my stone? 

I'm glad you appreciate it!

P.S. what is the keybind for the dotmapping tool?

ALT-X to (de-)activate, CTRL-X to show/hide

[Lazteuq]

Huh, I thought that plainshill would be a peninsula. The lake will certainly be nice with Sailing, it really reminds me of the lake by PB60's start. You know what else reminds me of PB60? The stone on an island.

I think we can still potentially go Sailing before Masonry because you can ideally tech masonry while building the galley and sending it. We might settle on the stone for speed, in that case you need masonry just when the city is founded. Or, we could settle on the mainland pretty early and then quickly get a monument (or Library maybe??) so that the borders cover the stone by the time we're ready to quarry it. Honestly that sounds more appealing since the plainshill would be such a nice spot anyway. It takes away a lot of uncertainty about what surrounds that stone island. It probably can't be quite as fast as settling on the stone, but it might pay off with a more productive mainland city instead of burning a settler on the island.

If we go for Writing early, that reduces the demand to settle on the stone island, since foreign routes will do the same job (right?). Still need Sailing soon either way, but I think early Writing means settling on the mainland and relying on a border pop to get stone is better.

There is a chance that Superdeath decides to be a wonderwhore this game (he has definitely built some wonders before), but I really doubt he'll plan micro enough to beat us if we're dedicated. Getting early stone and having whip overflows+chops prepared should be able to beat his unplanned IND. Besides, I think he's more likely to go for Colossus or Great Lighthouse anyway. Nobody should want the mids as much as we do. Yes, it's still to early to really plan this, but hey, it's fun.

I really doubt early Academy-ing anywhere other than the capitol is good, because I think nothing will rival the capitol's commerce. When I was thinking of early Academy, I meant turn 60-ish. At that point no other city will be grown and improved enough to beat the capitol's +8c from Palace plus oasis and whatever early cottages we may build. Anyway, we're PHI, we can just make another scientist easily for a second Academy.   Of course if we don't rush to get the first GS early, then maybe a different city becomes competitive for Academy. But I really think we should rush the first GS to take full advantage of PHI.
OK, now I'm starting to wonder if Pyramids and Early Academy are mutually exclusive. I'd like to think they aren't because we can sacrifice some early growth to make it work. Losing some turns on the dates to 4th,5th,6th settlers feels like it would be worth it, since the Academy can really accelerate the rush to Currency and Representation can really accelerate whipping settlers/workers later. Basically that means we should be able to catch up with the growth leaders in the Classical era. Of course this might end up with us losing out on our "fair share" of land to some IMP and CRE bullies, that's a very real risk, depending on the map shape.

That scout plan sounds good.

Man, I'm saying "early" way too much.

[civac2]

If you improve the stone on the island without a city there you won't get the stone into the trade network. It's possible with a fort (either on the stone or on the desert connected with a road to the stone quarry). That requires Mathematics.